Difficult animation.

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  08 August 2014
Difficult animation.

I hear rigging bird's wings are the toughest things to do and some say that they are always looking for a bird's wing rig in rigging portfolios. Is there anything like that in animation in your understanding?

It's ok if it's something you personally feel has been tough to animate for you personally and haven't heard many people complain about it.
 
  08 August 2014
Originally Posted by deohboeh: I hear rigging bird's wings are the toughest things to do and some say that they are always looking for a bird's wing rig in rigging portfolios. Is there anything like that in animation in your understanding?


Try the human face... with eyelids that have to adjust around the cornea's bulge, and mouth corners, and getting those areas at the sides of the nose to work properly during "flaring".

That's tough.

Bird's Wings sounds like it can be done with Driven Bone Actions.
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  08 August 2014
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Try the human face... with eyelids that have to adjust around the cornea's bulge, and mouth corners, and getting those areas at the sides of the nose to work properly during "flaring".

That's tough.

Bird's Wings sounds like it can be done with Driven Bone Actions.


I didn't realise nose flaring, eyelids and mouth corners would be that difficult... Now that I think of it, it does seem complex to maintain those parts from intersecting and properly deforming...
That said shouldn't nose flaring and eyelids be the domain of rigging where it has more to do about correct deforms rather than animating for fluidity in motion?
 
  08 August 2014
Animating a realistic octopus.
-swimming motion vs articulated crawling/grabbing/squashing tentacles.
 
  08 August 2014
Here's Tyson Ibele great tutorial on bird wings rigging:
http://www.tysonibele.com/Main/Tutorials/tutorials.htm

He used the technique for this great piece:
http://www.tysonibele.com/Main/Animations/sparrow.avi
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  08 August 2014
Originally Posted by deohboeh: I didn't realise nose flaring, eyelids and mouth corners would be that difficult... Now that I think of it, it does seem complex to maintain those parts from intersecting and properly deforming...
That said shouldn't nose flaring and eyelids be the domain of rigging where it has more to do about correct deforms rather than animating for fluidity in motion?


Hmmm... you got a point.
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  08 August 2014
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Hmmm... you got a point.

How was the OP talking about wrigging a bird wing any different?
If the wrigs are awesome enough its all doable. But whose the real hero then?

Last edited by circusboy : 08 August 2014 at 05:09 PM.
 
  08 August 2014
Originally Posted by circusboy: How was the OP talking about wrigging a bird wing any different?
If the wrigs are awesome enough its all doable. But whose the real hero then?


I was just thinking that the most insane bird wing rig would have feathers as individual hard surfaces and still look OK. :P
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  08 August 2014
One digression.
What "OP" means?

I realized it was a person who opened the thread? But why OP? What is OP shortcut?
"Obvious Person who opened a thread", or it's like "Opinion Matters"? But then again "Matters" is not starting with P.

"Op" in my country means jump.. so when I hear "Op, op, op", it really sounds like everybody wants me to jump.
I jump, but I still don't get it.
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  08 August 2014
Originally Posted by d4rk3lf: One digression.
What "OP" means?


"Original Poster"
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  08 August 2014
Or sometimes "Original Post".
Either way fundamentally Difficult animation = complex sophisticated rigs.
I can't think of a case where that isn't true.
 
  08 August 2014
I think the premise of the OP is kinda flawed. With rigging, there's one (well, normally more than one, but a finite number) of correct solutions. You have to tackle complex challenge in a reel, because there's no way to make a simple rig amazing. With animation, though, you can absolutely take something simple--a couple lines of dialogue, say--, really hit it out of the park, and have an amazing reel.
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Last edited by Meloncov : 08 August 2014 at 07:28 AM.
 
  09 September 2014
Originally Posted by Meloncov: I think the premise of the OP is kinda flawed. With rigging, there's one (well, normally more than one, but a finite number) of correct solutions. You have to tackle complex challenge in a reel, because there's no way to make a simple rig amazing. With animation, though, you can absolutely take something simple--a couple lines of dialogue, say--, really hit it out of the park, and have an amazing reel.


I was also thinking that with rigs, there is usually some difference in terms of what's objectively superior. You might see superior animation from a Wing rig that is entirely made up of a simple chain of default FK bones, but with a really focused animator he might get those wings to move better onscreen than a "fancy" wing rig.

It's like how some animators prefer FK-only arms and don't like IK arms or "elbow controllers".
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  09 September 2014
Originally Posted by deohboeh: some say that they are always looking for a bird's wing rig in rigging portfolios.

I wouldn't go as far as "some say". A couple guys from Blur reviewing portfolios rode that bird wings thing for the whole episode, but you shouldn't take it that literally. I doubt they meant for it to become the paragon of rigging anyway. Mind, wings are by far not the hardest thing to rig to begin with, if there even is such an absolute thing, which I doubt there is.

What would have made more sense would be saying that rigging folding elements with a very high surface reduction coefficient is, generally speaking, a hard problem to solve, bird wings are just one example, but not the only one, and at least they are fairly deterministic anyway.

What makes sense, and they did mention that, is showing a certain degree of versatility in your reel, and showing how you tackle several challenges. A wing rig is a decent enough display of one solution to a relatively tough and not uncommon problem, so it's good to have if you will, but you need other things as well, and anyway it's certainly not a requirement or a golden ticket.

Similarly, there is no single hardest thing in animation, and different people will be at ease or struggle with different things, but displaying a wide enough array of skills will be best.

Some people are good actors and take their performance across to their animation effortlessly, but might not be terribly technically minded and really struggle with complex choreography requiring a lot of space switching and retiming, or viceversa.
So it's good to have something subtle, it's good to have action shots, even some mocap work to show you know how to handle it, similarly to how in a rigging reel it's good to show a mix of scripting skills, full body deformation work, tool dev, facial, or complex control setups.

Animators, much like anybody else but probably to an even larger extent, are often "cast" on a show once enough shots have been turned around exactly because of that aptitude towards certain things, and those on staff will usually be asked to work on their weakest points between shows or during staff reviews.
The same principle applies to a reel, get some pieces polished for the things you shine at, and get the things you're weakest at to a presentable level to make sure you don't completely fumble a shot at work. That's what you work on, that's what works well in a reel, that's how it goes when you're employed.

There is no single universally hardest thing, and you shouldn't take that comment from the reviews so literally, let alone across disciplines.
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