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Old 12-07-2012, 03:54 PM   #1
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Physical render

Hey guys,

Im a bit new to c4d an using r13 an im trying to get a sharper image an its looking good but its coming out a tad blurry do i need to up the anti aliasing and if so which method should i be using or is there a method in the physical render options i need to be looking at.

any help would be much appreciated.
 
Old 12-07-2012, 04:29 PM   #2
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use a good filter like mitchell, but more importantly, do you have motionblur or DOF on, and if yes are you sure you have the focus where you want it, both the focus distance, but also the motion and where the camera is looking.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:01 PM   #3
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i don't have any filters, im using mitchell but its at 4x4 an was still soft looking should i be using a higher value?


an for some reason i dont have much in the scene an its taken 11min to render an i have 8 core comp any thoughts on that? I have area lights an 2 bounce cards i cant show the image for NDA reasons

Last edited by thehive : 12-07-2012 at 06:06 PM.
 
Old 12-07-2012, 08:02 PM   #4
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you don't have filter? mitchell is a filter^^^. you can use sinc for sharper results and if you use the phys. render you can set the mip-scale to 0. also the texturefilter can sharpen the render if you change from mip to sat. all this settings increase the rendertimes. you need a still or a animation ?
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:09 PM   #5
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Just a stil for now
 
Old 12-08-2012, 12:54 AM   #6
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Can you elaborate on which AA filters increases render time the most, and which is the fastest? Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by madrabbit
you don't have filter? mitchell is a filter^^^. you can use sinc for sharper results and if you use the phys. render you can set the mip-scale to 0. also the texturefilter can sharpen the render if you change from mip to sat. all this settings increase the rendertimes. you need a still or a animation ?
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:10 PM   #7
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I think i got it an renders are down to around 4min a render from 11
 
Old 12-09-2012, 11:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustardseed
Can you elaborate on which AA filters increases render time the most, and which is the fastest? Thanks!


For the most part the filters will not have a huge effect on render times, as they are applied after sub-pixel sampling has been determined.

A filter is used to help find the average pixel color from sub-pixels and from surrounding subpixels from adjacent pixels.

The filter width determines how many pixels a filter considers when finding the average color.

The big questions should not be "which filter is faster", as each filter has it's own specific qualities, good and bad. The question is really "which filter provides the look I want"

For this it is a really good idea to check the MANUAL, as it has very good descriptions of filter shape and the results of each filter.

For sharpness, sinc is the sharpest, next to no filter, but sinc will often cause negative values to occur, which can lead to fringing / ghost pixels in high contrast situations.

Kai mentioned Mitchell because it is the closest thing to a blend between cubic and sinc, crisper lines than cubic, but less artifacts than caused by sinc.

Never choose a filter based on speed....it is all about output quality / need.

Some people may use lower sampling settings in the render and then use wide filters to deal with the noise, but this guarantees a soft image.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:07 AM   #9
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Filters will have an impact on standard render but as Chi said, not on physical render really. I'd agree too that it should be about the look your going for not the overall speed especially since the speed difference for filters even with standard renderer is usually a minute amount of overall rendertime, like seconds not minutes.


One thing I'll add that I forgot, is that as Chi mentioned, I like using mitchel typically because its somewhere inbetween sinc and cubic, getting a fairly sharp image while not going negative nearly as much sinc. Honestly sync can be a compositing nightmare, but for a single sharp highres still it can make for a super crisp image. Anyways the thing I wanted to point out was a newer feature in C4D that allows you to also clamp the filter, basically eliminating all negative values and thus getting a sharper render without even feting halo's and rims. This to me is essential really for cleaner comps although it does reduce the crispness a little. This can be a little drastic sometimes with sinc, but it does mean you can get away with sinc more than you used to.

Ironically we try and get a nice fairly clean sharp render, but I run 2-3 blur passes over my cg assets, along with adding a final video noise to integrate it into video plates and get rid of one of the key things that gives cg away, its over sharpness. Include post DOF and motionblur and basically all that sharpness I fought for, I destroy later on, oh the irony.

In the old Days, I often used the animation mode, which people complained was far too soft, but it honestly fits better on a plate than a straight render using the old image or sinc filters. Little did I know how much harder/less flexible dealing with the blurry images is in post, but least my previous project didn't suffer form the constant mistake I see all over which is perfectly sharp cg on totally unsharp plates.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:56 AM   #10
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Thanks Patrick and Kai, for your extremely detailed explanations. Very useful info for me. To be honest, I've always gone with 'Animation' as well for the same reasons Kai stated. And even then I've found them sometimes too sharp. And also, for anything broadcast on standard def, the fine sharp details always had problems and to be blurred out anyway. But I do see the need for more sharpness to make a still render really punchy.

One more question: The 'Clamping' you mentioned, is that something new in r14, or is this the 'Clip Negative Component' checkbox (I'm still on r13)?

Speaking about sharpness, and going OT a little: I just saw The Avengers playing at an electronics store in a mall on a demo TV set. These new TVs have some crazy image processing going on that really changes the picture quality. It was the scene where Loki made everybody kneel before him, and it was so sharp and contrasty that it looked more like sports footage shot on video, than a feature film. So much for that 'movie magic' quality.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustardseed
One more question: The 'Clamping' you mentioned, is that something new in r14, or is this the 'Clip Negative Component' checkbox (I'm still on r13)?
.


sorry yes, not in c4d as much and using several packages so I"m not as concise in my terms nowadays, that would be the feature I meant.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:14 PM   #12
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