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Old 07-05-2013, 09:06 AM   #31
matmonkfish
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I dont see that it matters if animation is 'mature' or not..

things are about the strength of content, not the medium.. and perhaps animation is just too fiddly and time consuming to make a story of something more serious that can be done with film quicker and usually with more emotion. Sure animation has a part.. but there's not much point using it 'for the sake of it'.

i get ticked off by animation that is valued because it is animation... it's often just an excuse for an extremely mundane story which is valued because of the medium, a bit of stylish pazazz and that took a long time..

Animation is so much hard work it can suck the life out of anything and make it painfully dull. Best leave it to the big companies to churn out some colorful kids stuff and leave interesting filmmakers to use whatever is most fitting to emotion, finance, and schedule.

I mean, surely sometimes choosing to use animation when its not necessary is really not that smart, maybe animation is just a pain in the ass and any sensible filmmaker would in many cases quite likely avoid it like the plague.

Last edited by matmonkfish : 07-05-2013 at 09:10 AM.
 
Old 07-05-2013, 01:40 PM   #32
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But thats like telling a painter to 'stick with' photography to get their message out.

Some countries have bothered to fund animation amongst the arts they give grants too. I happen to live in one.
Here is a great example.
http://www.nfb.ca/film/madame_tutli_putli_en/

Simply too dark and scary for kids.
 
Old 07-05-2013, 10:07 PM   #33
redbellpeppers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelgy
One of the oldest nuggets of advice in filmmaking is: dont finance your own films.
But studio patrons/financiers used to be more willing to fund a variety of films.
If a Heavy Traffic or Watership Down or Adventures of Mark Twain could get funding and distribution then surely a Heavy Metal could have (in the days when there were more studios and distribution channels and it didnt cost as much).

Well, I can't help but believe that funding yourf own projects could / would allow you to make a superior product than that which the studios would allow you to make.
And probably receive more acclaim to boot.
 
Old 07-05-2013, 11:23 PM   #34
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I consider adult, anything I wouldn't want to show my child. That's pretty much it.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 12:44 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbellpeppers
Well, I can't help but believe that funding yourf own projects could / would allow you to make a superior product than that which the studios would allow you to make.
And probably receive more acclaim to boot.


If you dont care about a profit then your own money is the way to go--but you still have to be prepared to see it thrown away by unforseen circumstances--or being unable to find distribution. That's why they usually pre-sell movies and have distribution already prepared.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 06:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelgy
If you dont care about a profit then your own money is the way to go--but you still have to be prepared to see it thrown away by unforseen circumstances--or being unable to find distribution. That's why they usually pre-sell movies and have distribution already prepared.


The way I see it, you wouldn't do it unless you believed in it.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 07:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmonkfish
I dont see that it matters if animation is 'mature' or not..

things are about the strength of content, not the medium.. and perhaps animation is just too fiddly and time consuming to make a story of something more serious that can be done with film quicker and usually with more emotion. Sure animation has a part.. but there's not much point using it 'for the sake of it'.

i get ticked off by animation that is valued because it is animation... it's often just an excuse for an extremely mundane story which is valued because of the medium, a bit of stylish pazazz and that took a long time..

Animation is so much hard work it can suck the life out of anything and make it painfully dull. Best leave it to the big companies to churn out some colorful kids stuff and leave interesting filmmakers to use whatever is most fitting to emotion, finance, and schedule.

I mean, surely sometimes choosing to use animation when its not necessary is really not that smart, maybe animation is just a pain in the ass and any sensible filmmaker would in many cases quite likely avoid it like the plague.


Maybe that is the case in your market, but in most of Asia, it is easier and cheaper to make a film like Ghost in the Shell or Jin-Roh (Japan), Green Days or Wonderful Days (Korea), Kuiba or Storm Rider: Clash of Evils, than to do such things in live action. These markets have perfected their 2D animation pipelines to be fast and efficient and cheap. There is a reason most western animation is outsourced to these markets.

Actually according to your thinking, the DC Universe animated films like Superman: Doomsday, Justice League: New Earth (extremely mature for a superhero film), or Wonder Woman, could easily be done by Hollywood in live action. They would cost $200+ million each to do the same film I suspect.

Actually, even a 3D film like [i[Starship Troopers: Invasion[/i] is cheaper than most live action Hollywood productions, so I don't see where you're getting your idea that animation is so expensive and time consuming as to not bother with. Unless you're comparing animation to SyFy films, and even then I think it would be a tough bet.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelgy
If you dont care about a profit then your own money is the way to go--but you still have to be prepared to see it thrown away by unforseen circumstances--or being unable to find distribution. That's why they usually pre-sell movies and have distribution already prepared.


Chris Nolan, of Batman fame, self funded his first project, Follower, as did Makoto Shinkai, Yamato Morita, Atsuya Uki, Yasuhiro Yoshiura, and even Ryuhei Kitamura. Look where their careers are now.

You may be right for how it's been done, but this is a new age.
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teruchan
Chris Nolan, of Batman fame, self funded his first project, Follower, as did Makoto Shinkai, Yamato Morita, Atsuya Uki, Yasuhiro Yoshiura, and even Ryuhei Kitamura. Look where their careers are now.

You may be right for how it's been done, but this is a new age.


Well I was thinking about feature films specifically with that saying about self-funding but how many did fund their own films who are nowhere? What's the percentage of success vs failure?


But having others fund it leads to a Ed Wood type problem where the investor may dictate terms.
However--that's not really the Heavy Metal situation--here you have well know directors with a track record-and the studios arent interested in it.
Now, Cameron and the others could fund it themselves and probably make back the investment.
Ideally its best when a studio with creative enthusiasm and a willingness to take risks is behind such a project and you dont have to risk bankruptcy to make it.

Last edited by kelgy : 07-06-2013 at 04:52 PM.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 06:20 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelgy
Well I was thinking about feature films specifically with that saying about self-funding but how many did fund their own films who are nowhere?


We don't hear about those guys so I am guessing they are a plenty, especially since the advent of the DV camera. I would go further since I know personally people who self funded their film, completed it, got distribution and still didn't make a dime. The guy who made Six String Samurai was living in a friend's basement last I heard, but, hey, he got distribution and his film was pretty popular!

On the other hand, since the advent of the DV camera, how many have self funded and made films that really aren't worth watching? I am guessing that skews the numbers a lot. If we limit it to those who made films that are, at least, as good as an Asylum film, I am guessing most will have gotten somewhere. Even if a TV channel or small distributor pays them $20K that's something.

We are, however, talking about animation, which is a lot easier to sell if there is any semblance of quality. Remember Ralph Bakshi's famous Comicon address, the "eat ramen for a year" speech? That's advocating self funding your film. He claims that someone will definitely buy it and you'll be a millionaire after that. That's a best case scenario, of course, but any halfway decent, feature length animation will go somewhere when done.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:35 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teruchan
We are, however, talking about animation, which is a lot easier to sell if there is any semblance of quality. Remember Ralph Bakshi's famous Comicon address, the "eat ramen for a year" speech? That's advocating self funding your film. He claims that someone will definitely buy it and you'll be a millionaire after that. That's a best case scenario, of course, but any halfway decent, feature length animation will go somewhere when done.


But is the claim that someone will buy supported or is it wishful thinking?
What has happened to Sita Sings the Blues or Killer Bean (I know he opted not to sell it through normal distribution channels but has it been a good decision)?
 
Old 07-06-2013, 06:35 PM   #42
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