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Old 01-15-2016, 09:01 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circusboy
Well it might be a political way to raise the issue on the Foundry forums is my point. Treat it as a bug.
Log it to tech support directly if you want.
Complaining here ain't never gonna be better than well...a discussion...

Complaining here let a lot of people know that if they were to receive such an e-mail it's both very likely to be real, and also something they shouldn't fall for as it's legal bait.
Of many ranting and raving threads we've had on GD I would say this has become one of the most significant and useful.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:33 AM   #122
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License compliance

Almost a year ago, back in 2015, I received an email from the_foundry License compliance department saying the same thing that some of you have already stated.

I immediately checked the email address of the person who sent me the email and found it to be a legit Foundry employee from License compliance team.

I was given a few days to respond back like some of you and I replied back. The Nuke, and other Foundry products that I had on my computer were downloaded from the Foundry site directly and my email address used was like "*****studios". But I do not own a studio, work at a studio, or anything like that, that's just the name I chose for my email.

I received a reply back from them saying that I was using illegal copy of foundry products for my business. I had to explain to them that I don't have a business nor have I ever made any income with any foundry products and that the copies of the products were for educational purposes.

I told them the truth just like it was and honest to God prayed that this would just all go away. Last message I received from them was a settlement offer of $12k and that I had something like a couple of days to go over the settlement and get back to them with an answer ASAP. But I never did. I never got back to them. I did however contact a lawyer and a police offer and discussed it with them and they said DON'T do anything, don't even respond back.

They were used for educational purposes only. I never have and would never use cracked copies for income in any way, I don't believe that is "right". I was just trying to learn nuke but not even close to knowing enough to even use it professionally let alone make income from it.

Last edited by hulkdude : 02-17-2016 at 05:53 AM.
 
Old 02-16-2016, 03:05 PM   #123
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@itsdpmikey

Just a head's up. It's never a good idea to admit to software piracy in an open forum. Your drive might have been reformatted, but you just left a record of your crime here on this board - where it'll no doubt be cached elsewhere. CGTalk is also not some rinky dink site. It is frequented, both openly and more quietly, by many industry insiders. That includes people from The Foundry. You certainly wouldn't walk into the police station lobby, devil may care, and randomly admit to a mugging, right? Same principle. While I doubt that anybody would go after you after so much time, it's in your best interest to be careful next time you post.

(FTR, deleting this post won't do you much good since, apart from web caches, anybody that's subscribed to this thread has already received a copy of your post.)
 
Old 02-17-2016, 05:09 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSanta
@itsdpmikey

Just a head's up. It's never a good idea to admit to software piracy in an open forum. Your drive might have been reformatted, but you just left a record of your crime here on this board - where it'll no doubt be cached elsewhere. CGTalk is also not some rinky dink site. It is frequented, both openly and more quietly, by many industry insiders. That includes people from The Foundry. You certainly wouldn't walk into the police station lobby, devil may care, and randomly admit to a mugging, right? Same principle. While I doubt that anybody would go after you after so much time, it's in your best interest to be careful next time you post.

(FTR, deleting this post won't do you much good since, apart from web caches, anybody that's subscribed to this thread has already received a copy of your post.)




that is a good point and good advice thanks. I however did already mention to them that I reformatted my drives at the time I was still communicating with them, I also did mention to them the reason why the copies were on my drive. Everything that I mentioned here I already had mentioned to the_foundry at that time.

But like I said, you made a good point and I appreciate that.
 
Old 02-17-2016, 01:55 PM   #125
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Well, honestly, using pirated version of the software is illegal regardless if you make any income with it or none at all. It's still breaking of the EULA you had to inevitably agree with somewhere during the installation or product launch. And since you broke the license you agreed upon, you broke the law.

So while I definitely do not agree with The Foundry's practices like these, and they are the reason I will never even consider using any of their products (legally, of course), the "I didn't make any money with it" excuse won't hold up in any non-3rd world legal system.
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Old 02-18-2016, 03:50 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Rawalanche
Well, honestly, using pirated version of the software is illegal regardless if you make any income with it or none at all. It's still breaking of the EULA you had to inevitably agree with somewhere during the installation or product launch. And since you broke the license you agreed upon, you broke the law.

So while I definitely do not agree with The Foundry's practices like these, and they are the reason I will never even consider using any of their products (legally, of course), the "I didn't make any money with it" excuse won't hold up in any non-3rd world legal system.



Yes this I also agree with. I just knew at the time that there was no way I could learn much if anything, in just 15 days with their 15 day trial of nuke being the super advanced program that Nuke is. But now I do not participate in this "illegal" activity. Whenever I come across anyone who is using a cracked version I always tell them not to do it it's not worth it.

Ironically the people that are using cracked versions they're not really hiding or anything like that. Take YouTube for example. There are several dozen videos of people installing cracked versions like instructional videos to show people how to do it. Now I'm pretty sure that the_foundry is aware of this or I don't know maybe they aren't but that would be kind of odd. And people are openly discussing it in the comment sections like how they have or are trying to install cracked versions.

Take this one for example

http://youtu.be/4HNXFpNlznc
 
Old 03-01-2016, 06:01 PM   #127
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edited original

Last edited by Walking : 03-18-2016 at 08:11 AM.
 
Old 03-03-2016, 05:25 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by rockinrnb
I've read most of the posts and am looking for any advice I can get. Our company has been accused of having a computer running cracked versions of NUKE, NUKEX, MARI, & MODO. They sent us 5 mac ip addresses and the server address of the only employee we had that potentially might have used this software. He adamantly denies installing cracked licenses-said he saw it on his computer but thought it was a PLE. He said he checked with everyone and no one installed anything. Believe me, I realize a lot of people could be not telling the truth, but all TF has supplied us with is a usage report. My question to you smart people out there, could TF find those ip addresses from a free trial use and then just fabricate the usage report? Does TF have access to view what is created on your machine? Our attorney has asked for more proof but has not received anything. I am distrustful of both sides of this. It just seems so easy for TF to say this went on and demand $25+K without supplying any real proof. Any insight would be appreciated.


Please update on this if you can...I'm curious what sort of games they're playing with all this. Of course, I understand that legally you might not be able to talk about it.
 
Old 03-23-2016, 07:08 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawalanche
Well, honestly, using pirated version of the software is illegal regardless if you make any income with it or none at all. It's still breaking of the EULA you had to inevitably agree with somewhere during the installation or product launch. And since you broke the license you agreed upon, you broke the law.

So while I definitely do not agree with The Foundry's practices like these, and they are the reason I will never even consider using any of their products (legally, of course), the "I didn't make any money with it" excuse won't hold up in any non-3rd world legal system.


Well. This is correct. But everyone who started with a C64 and experienced the 90th till today knows the common attitude of the world of users. If anyone is here who never ever used software the other way around for several reasons like "I just able to get it" "I know how to get it" "I am curious to play with it" "I bought some games but I can't buy every game I like to test" "I bought a lot of software in my life but if I would buy everything just for one little thing to test or export I would be broke" or simply "I am just curious and if it's for free now why not give it a try" etc. etc. I know 1000 reasons why people around me had their PC's full of software all the time ... I know NOONE who just ran JUST normal stuff on his stuff... sorry, but anyone here who's a geek or nerd for ages knows exactly how the whole branch grew up and with all the side effects what went more extreme since the internet. Who telling me that he never ever used inofficial software I just allege that this person is a liar or maybe living in a total different parallel universe.

So let's face the reality. Cracked software was, is and will be a part of the world. It happens because there are thousands of nerds hacking the stuff for a different reason. Mainly it's a challange. People run sites where you can download. It's just one click away and it's easier and faster than buying. I watched many situations where people were fed up with shit license models again and again what ruined days and fucked up projects. Finally the solution was: using another version. Installed. Patched. Worked.

I know companies with many 3d licenses but finally they used a crack not to expand the licenses. Just because it was easier and stable.

Well, things have changed. Overall there are no excuses. But fact is that a whole generation is used to work like this. We had discussions in the end of the 90th all the time that the ones who buy everything will lose the game because everyone else is using a mix of software this way. This also fucked up prices. I know. It's crap. But noone reported to the BSA or software developers because you can't report someone if you also a part of the game. One reason why the bullshit campaigns of the BSA to tattle someone for money won't really work.

Software developers always were aware of the issue. I talked in the 90th to a reseller what they might do against the problem? They just said that the big developer tolerate it because the ones running cracked Maya, Max, SI etc. today are the customers of tomorrow. The young dev team of NUKE did "inofficially support spreading NUKE" when they had left DD.

The problem is that TF is a shareholder driven company aiming more and more profit per year. That's the difference to small developers like original Softimage where people were passionated for the product. TF has to fulfill the shareholder's and investor's greed for money. Therefore the strike against NUKE clients is a perfect method to flood money into the account. THAT's the only reason for this bullshit. Because there's another way they never tried: collecting data and inform all the customers and talk to them from partner to partner that using NUKE this way is bad for everyone and primarily the developer. Talking, clearing up, solving the issue by a fair deal "please buy another license" and warning "stop this for the future, keep the company clean and be warned if this will happen again".
 
Old 03-23-2016, 08:30 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whistleblower
The problem is that TF is a shareholder driven company aiming more and more profit per year. That's the difference to small developers like original Softimage where people were passionated for the product. TF has to fulfill the shareholder's and investor's greed for money. Therefore the strike against NUKE clients is a perfect method to flood money into the account. THAT's the only reason for this bullshit. Because there's another way they never tried: collecting data and inform all the customers and talk to them from partner to partner that using NUKE this way is bad for everyone and primarily the developer. Talking, clearing up, solving the issue by a fair deal "please buy another license" and warning "stop this for the future, keep the company clean and be warned if this will happen again".


The whole first 2/3rd of that post are pretty much irrelevant. No matter how you look at it, it is still illegal and you face consequences when caught. And everybody also knows that. Talk to other devs like ChaosGroup which are considerably smaller (or at least used to be) if they "tolerate" it or "don't care". I doubt that and that has nothing to do with being shareholder-driven. I guess this has more to do with the size and being ABLE to do it.

On your last paragraph, i have seen that exact way happening, so i assume it depends on the situation. The way of getting in touch was weird at least but i guess there are reasons too (e.g. talking to the tech-contact may be talking to the person that is responsible in the first place). In that case it was a freelancer on the public WiFi and settled easily (at least for us, probably not for the freelancer). If you run a business with a bunch (or many) seats of cracked nuke installs why would TF consider you a partner??

On another note it seems that most people here seem to be unaware of the ridicule you are put up with if you reach a certain size. MS license audits are a very nice way to waste everybody's time and money for example, and yup, you sign up for these in your contracts :P

Last but not least: Please don't get me wrong. I am opposing breaching privacy and security, but i disagree on the notion that it is somehow okay and justifiable to use pirated software (because of the 90s or everyone doing it? really?). The amount of money we pay for software is insane. And if others use pirated software they have quite an edge in terms of cost.

Cheers,
Thorsten
 
Old 03-25-2016, 08:18 PM   #131
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Hello Thorsten,

you're absolutely right. I don't know about your history. But the problem is that the issue using illegal software is a worldwide issue and it comes from the history of how to use software. So the point is not irrelevant. I am not justifying the use of illegal software. I just try to explain why this happens and ever will happen.

Over 20 years the main developers tolerated it. But due to the internet the issue is becoming huge. I can understand that developers HAVE to do something against it. But the fact that mostly everyone seems to have trouble with TF says a lot that this is not a issue by some people with criminal energy. It's a problem of a general wrong behavior and attitude for many reasons. Listening to copied music on tapes was also illegal. Everyone did it. But noone cared because it was a mass behaviour. OK, this wasn't commercial use but it was a damage and copyright infringement. I just can say that someone who had a list of the companies set under compliance of my country was remarkable. I had some talk to other people from freelance to CEO. All confirmed: yes, we have / had the same issue. Some were not solved yet but most of the people paid to get away from it.

What I don't like is the method of TF. They don't really inform. They just set you under pressure by e-mail only. First of all they claim for damages compensation for the number of cracks + a lump sum of investigation fee. They don't show you any evidence. You have to ask them and they give out information just in small steps but still incomplete. No evidence at the end but you have to pay without getting any license for it. From their pov it's also irrelevant if there was a freelance running a cracked license server. The CEO is responsible and they don't move away from this.

If you negotiate they will give you the licenses and drop the investigation fee because they know it's illegal. But they try. And there's one more point. They don't analyze their data. They claim a damage compensation per installed NUKE. The problem is that NUKE isn't cracked on the specific MAC addresses. There's one crack running to send the license token. If their records show eg. 6 NUKES running over a time of 3 months but without overlapping schedules I don't see a damage of 6 illegal NUKES if the list shows the use of one floating license only at the end. They also don't analyze for what NUKE was used: operating or rendering? In the case of rendering we are talking about a complete different type of damages.

Finally. I am in this business for a long time. I know noone who's running 100% legal. The bigger the companies are the more they point on their employees or freelance people who brought the shit into the company. Overall we all have excuses. TF is right but they swing the hammer wrong in my opinion. There are other ways to solve such an issue. If most of the clients are using cracks beside the legal licenses you have to ask yourself: why so many and what can we do that this stops. Well: clearing up by an open letter with a warning.

And finally the irony of this: TF is mainly going after their clients and not the ones who are running TF software 100% illegal. The reason is that it's easy to identify their clients running legal software also sending data secretly to TF while the effort to identify unknown user behind unknown IP-addresses isn't worth the effort, time and costs for the lawyer.

Anyway. It's not an easy discussion and that's one advantage for TF. The affected companies keep their mouth shut because it's embarassing and you can't throw with stones while sitting in the glasshouse.

Happy Easter!

Last edited by whistleblower : 03-25-2016 at 08:43 PM.
 
Old 03-25-2016, 09:12 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whistleblower
What I don't like is the method of TF. They don't really inform. They just set you under pressure by e-mail only. First of all they claim for damages compensation for the number of cracks + a lump sum of investigation fee. They don't show you any evidence. You have to ask them and they give out information just in small steps but still incomplete. No evidence at the end but you have to pay without getting any license for it. From their pov it's also irrelevant if there was a freelance running a cracked license server. The CEO is responsible and they don't move away from this.


I agree that the method of contact was weird, but i can still tell that the rest is not necessarily true. They were already hinting it was most likely a freelancer when getting in touch and it was and they were actually going after the freelancer rather than the company.

Quote:
If you negotiate they will give you the licenses and drop the investigation fee because they know it's illegal. But they try. And there's one more point. They don't analyze their data. They claim a damage compensation per installed NUKE. The problem is that NUKE isn't cracked on the specific MAC addresses. There's one crack running to send the license token. If their records show eg. 6 NUKES running over a time of 3 months but without overlapping schedules I don't see a damage of 6 illegal NUKES if the list shows the use of one floating license only at the end. They also don't analyze for what NUKE was used: operating or rendering? In the case of rendering we are talking about a complete different type of damages.


I find it kind of ironic, that you bring that up. "But they try". Sounds pretty much like what quite some of these companies are or have been doing. Again: We DO pay for our licenses. If you look up pricing then NOT paying does give other shops an edge. And most of the evidence you presented are not really any better than what you claim TF is having. I am calling it a draw :P

And if there is evidence (and it seems that most cases were not without evidence, no?) then why would TF talk from "partner to partner" or send a polite warning.

This would be different if they were attacking innocent customers. But it seems that most had some evidence (even if not caused by themselves. But then again, depending on the country you are responsible for what happens via your WiFi (at least here in .de)).

I definately agree that it is not a simple discussion, but i felt that things were swinging a little one-sided.

Cheers,
Thorsten
 
Old 07-19-2016, 02:52 AM   #133
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Has this been rectified as yet?

Have they sue anyone as yet? So I take it that its pretty much the worst idea to use crack software from the foundry?

I have never heard of Autodesk being this petty threatening and black mailing indie developers or free lancers over cracked maya etc.
 
Old 07-19-2016, 06:51 AM   #134
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Quote:
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I have never heard of Autodesk being this petty threatening and black mailing indie developers or free lancers over cracked maya etc.
Autodesk's License Compliance division that goes after people using cracked software makes more money then all of their M&E products combined (Maya, 3dsmax, Flame, Mudbox, etc...).
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:45 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaker
Autodesk's License Compliance division that goes after people using cracked software makes more money then all of their M&E products combined (Maya, 3dsmax, Flame, Mudbox, etc...).

Where did you get that info from ? Any hard facts/documents to proof this ?
I do not remember seeing such numbers in their annual/quarterly reports...
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