True skin?

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  01 January 2003
True skin?

Hi all,

Here's an experiment of true skin texture. 'true' means just it has really a skin layer made of a slightly larger head object with a translucent material of banji. That is, a thin and translucent skin layer has been covered over the head, and colors of an underlying layer are partly seen through the layer.

Settings of banji are roughly such that it has somewhat broad specular, a little surface opacities and weak roughness (bump). The layer below has been set to oren-nayar shading with low diffusion.

It may be too shiny, or something like glass coating, and I'm not sure there occurs a sort of scattering in this trial. Honestly, I don't think it's surely realistic skin, but there may be room for improvement.
Any further discussions and comments are appreciated, including the question of whether this may be a right way or not.

  01 January 2003
Hi Ikeda,

There's a sharp line between skin and lips. Is this because you didn't cover the lips with the translucent layer?

It has a bit of a velvet shine to it, and if I recall correctly, this can be done with a single shader, isn't it?

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  01 January 2003
Looks okay, but I think you're better off using a single material with Chanlum or Arndt's translucency shader in the luminance channel (for SSS fake).

It does look too shiny and a little metallic. Maybe use Blinn or Oren-Nayar instead of Phong. I'd use a specularity map in the specular color channel to vary the shininess (more on the forehead and nose and less on the cheeks).

Interesting experiment.
  01 January 2003
Hi brammelo,
Thanks for quick reply.
Quote: Originally posted by brammelo
There's a sharp line between skin and lips. Is this because you didn't cover the lips with the translucent layer?

The lips area has been textured with another restricted shader for polygon selection, so simply I didn't cover the fringe with the texture for lips. I'll correct it.
Quote: Originally posted by brammelo
It has a bit of a velvet shine to it, and if I recall correctly, this can be done with a single shader, isn't it?

This includes two heads, and a slightly larger head and an original-size head are overlapped. If you mean each head has a single shader, yes it does except for lips. The inner head has a simple shader, color of which has been uv mapped with an image, and the outer head has a banji. Maybe the velvet-like highlight comes from the banji, its specular, diffusion and roughness.

  01 January 2003
Hi AdamT,

Thanks for comments.
Yes, sss shaders may be better. I expected a real thin layer between two heads generates some effects of scattering, but it may not be the case since it's a bit metallic as you pointed out. But this may be adjusted with parameters of the banji...I hope, and need some workaround.

Last edited by H. Ikeda : 01 January 2003 at 03:41 PM.
  01 January 2003
heh heh....
H. Ikeda: love reading your posts bud...mainly cos you are always trying something different....keep it up bud.

btw is there any form of sss shader/plugin about out of interest?
One never knows what each day is going to bring. The important thing is to be open and ready for it.

Henry Moore
  01 January 2003
I always wondered if layered skin wouldn't be better, if more processor intensive.

Did you just scale a second model or did you use the makethicker plug-in? I wonder if the same thing couldn't be done with fusion.

Personally I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a way to make the skin "slide" over the bone. You know, like when you move your jaw the skin at your chin just barely moves up as the whole chin is moving down instead of being a complete slave to the way your character is boned.
  01 January 2003
your underlying layer needs to be a warmer color to my eye. there's no life to the skin, it's got that solid bronze look to it currently. maybe augment the transparency with the tinyest ammount of fresnel and a little noise.

i've found that for a simple skin with procedural only a light brown yellow is needed in the colour channel, actually a fairly cool colour then in luminance a really deep brown red, and the specular very very low and wide, but specular colour to the complimentary ofthe skin, so a blue. anyhow all of that seems to be a good starting point, then it's a case of adding in noises and stuff (if i'm doing it procedural only) also to fake the slight amount of fur and some depth to the skin without using SSS or another layer i often use a subtle glow on the skin, which both softens out any artifacts or problems with the mesh and gives a feeling of warmth to the skin, making it more tactile.
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  01 January 2003
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Thanks. I know something different is not always good, but at least we have chance to get better understanding.
As for SSS shaders, do you mean other than Chanlum and Vreel's?

Of course this takes more rendering time than without a skin layer, but I think it's within a reasonable range (partly because Shave takes much more time...).
I just scaled a second head in the model tool mode, simply writing multiplications like *0.95 in the fields of the Coordinate manager.
Maybe you're right about Fusion currently. If an effect of the skin layer is only the addition of color, specular and diffusion of the banji to an underlying color texture, this is nothing but that of Fusion... I expected more, but it seems little...

As for facial muscles controlled with bones, there is a muscle model as an application of the finite element method (in Siggraph). Someday we may use it in c4d using a much more powerful computer.

Well, that's bronze-like, that is, metallic one and need color. Ok, I'll try doing them. Also about some adjustment of banji.
Blue specular color and a little glow are cool. I'll also experiment about them. Thanks again.


Last edited by H. Ikeda : 01 January 2003 at 02:27 AM.
  01 January 2003
If I remember rightly each character in FF had a skeleton,then veins and arteries,next musculature,and then clothes,and all layers were separate.

The thing that I have found very important in a skin shader is diffusion,you can have everything set up brilliantly,but if the diffusion is not right it will ruin it.

I am thinking of trying patchs as opposed to a full head,and make the patches luminous to mimick underlying veins and cappilaries and the areas where there are more of them.

  01 January 2003
Hi kiwi,

Thanks for the comments.
The most important thing in skin textures is said to be scattering process within a skin layer. This means the scattering changes diffusion process on the surface of a skin layer, so diffusion might be important as you pointed out.
Ok, there may be two approaches to a realistic skin, using special shaders (SSS shaders, of course) and using anatomy-based modeling and texturing.
Are you trying the latter case, or some special shader?
Anyway, looking forward to your results.
  01 January 2003
I am going to try anatomy based

I think a realistic skin is a result of good lighting,good texturing,and understading the materials.I went through some of Leighs texturing for dummies threads again last night and picked up quite a few new tips for skin,check them out,especially the new diffusion one

I have not finished modelling my head yet to try the experiment,but I have a skin shader already which is one Phasmatis sent me and I added some tweaks to it as well,works quite nicely,we just dont have the ability to zip anymore here or I would attach it and I am sure evryone here could make add something and make it really rock.

  01 January 2003
Hey Kiwi,
Where can I find Leigh's tutorials?
  01 January 2003
I meant the texturing for dummies series,but actually I spotted a UVW mapping ute as well in the texturing forum here at CG Talk.

  01 January 2003
Quote: Originally posted by kiwi
I meant the texturing for dummies series,

Okay I'll bite, what's the texturing for dummies series?
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