GOOD NEWS FOR MAYA & MENTAL RAY FREAKS...!

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  04 April 2009
hi all and thanks for this useful thread
i like the irradiance particles system
but i have 2 Questions
First
the time for good render is very long if i do the same renedr with the old way
im traing to play with density but i Found the value 1 give me good result with long time
and Less than that give me unacceptable quality
is thare eny way to play around this ?
......................
secondly
How to deal with render animation
thanks
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  04 April 2009
Post

First I must say I use mray for everyday use exclusively (job) not any other renderer. But I have to be patient a lot

Dagon: I think you were over reacting to someone else comment... a bit childish way

But hey when reading this clumsy workflow when rendering using Importons etc, something is wrong guys...

...aborting renders, linking different files to render new image. Things should be easier so I think its ok when someone else point this out (better than keep mouth shut).


I dont want to blame anyone Im just a bit...well dissapointed


Cheers!

P.S. Great work indeed guys to push mray into new level of rendering quality! I saw incredible renders from you using mray recently. Keep it up!

Last edited by Libor : 04 April 2009 at 02:10 PM.
 
  04 April 2009
Libor,

Dagon1978 and CGBeige do this a lot. This isn't the first time. This thread dereailed almost instantly, so I hope it can get back on track, bacause while I tend to agree with CGBeige's assessment of MR at times, that's not what this thread is about. There's some genuinely good info in here.

...and Dagon1978, does your book have an english version? Can I get a discount too?
__________________
Chad Gleason
Creative Director
Outpost 12 Studios
 
  04 April 2009
Post Optimizations....!

Originally Posted by yassein: hi all and thanks for this useful thread
i like the irradiance particles system
but i have 2 Questions
First
the time for good render is very long if i do the same renedr with the old way
im traing to play with density but i Found the value 1 give me good result with long time
and Less than that give me unacceptable quality
is thare eny way to play around this ?
......................
secondly
How to deal with render animation
thanks


I was surprised to see that my reply to Spiralo on this "1 year old thread" could trigger such a "VESPAIO"...!

Anyway I agree that the last releases of MR are "quite buggy".
The guys at MR after releasing the Maya 2009 Sp1, they had to come out to release a new one after short time to fix some other bugs.
But until there are guys like Dagon, Rachid "Archoury" & CO, including myself spending tons of time to debug MR , where is your problem????

A SMALL SUGGESTION TO THE GUYS AT MR:
INSTEAD TO TRY IMPLEMENT NEW FEATURES WITH ANY NEW RELEASE, WHY JUST NOT TRYING TO MAKE WORKS THE FEATURES ALREADY IMPLEMENTED ???

Dear Yassein & LIBOR...!
I have to quote myself again....!

IF YOU USE THE TECHNIQUE I'VE EXPLAINED IN THE THIRD PART OF THE TUTORIAL :
NAMED “INTERPOLATED IMPORTONS AND IRRADIANCE PARTICLES WORKFLOW”

YOU WILL RENDER OUT IN ONE PASS WITHOUT THE NEED TO INTERRUPT THE RENDERING AND TO PROVIDE A PAHT TO THE IP FILE.

PLUS IF IN MAYA 2009...

YOU OPEN THE OUTLINER AND UNDER DISPLAY, UNCHECK THE “DAG OBJECTS ONLY”
SCROLL DOWN UNTIL YOU FIND THE “MI_DEFAULT_OPTONS” NODE AND DOUBLE CLICK IT
IN THE “MI_DEFAULT_OPTONS” ATTRIBUTES WINDOW,
SCROLL DOWN TO THE “STRING OPTIONS” TAB,
IN THE “STRING OPTIONS” TAB, CREATE A NEW ITEM "ADD NEW ITEM" AND INPUT THE 3 VALUES AS FOLLOWS:

NAME= importon emitted
VALUE= 100000 (OR LOWER SUCH AS 30000)
TYPE= integer

YOU WILL BYPASS THE "IMPORTONS DENSITY" VALUE UNDER THE INDIRECT LIGHTING TAB IN MAYA 2009

THIS IS A GOOD COMPROMISE BETWEEN QUALITY AND SPEED, AND RENDER TIMES ARE SIMILAR TO THE STANDARD MR FG/GI WORKFLOWS.


WITH THIS WORKFLOW, YOU WILL DEAL WITH ANIMATIONS LIKE YOU USUALLY DO WITH THE STANDARD MR FG/GI WORKFLOWS.

Ciao, and keep it constructive....!

Alex
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Alex Sandri
 
  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by withego: The guys at MR after releasing the Maya 2009 Sp1, they had to come out to release a new one after short time to fix some other bugs.

Alex


Ciao Alex!
Actually the problems of sp1 are coming from the adsk guys (or alias guys?), as the mr4maya now is not developed by mental images anymore
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my mental ray book my website
 
  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by dagon1978: Ciao Alex!
Actually the problems of sp1 are coming from the adsk guys (or alias guys?), as the mr4maya now is not developed by mental images anymore


Is it a good or a bad new? Do you think it will improve mr4maya integration?
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  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by fabergambis: Is it a good or a bad new? Do you think it will improve mr4maya integration?

judging by the sp1 it doesn't seems a good news, BTW maya 2009 was a step forward, so, probably we need to see in the next releases
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my mental ray book my website
 
  04 April 2009
sorry i missed the most important part
Quote: NAME= importon emitted
VALUE= 100000 (OR LOWER SUCH AS 30000)
TYPE= integer

yes now thare is balance between time and quality
thanks
..........................
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Last edited by yassein : 04 April 2009 at 12:40 PM.
 
  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by dagon1978: judging by the sp1 it doesn't seems a good news, BTW maya 2009 was a step forward, so, probably we need to see in the next releases


Ah, I always have hyper-inflated sense of hope of my job becoming easier when somesone says that!

Almost there...all this tech is good to play around with but I get bitten when I use these techniques in production. I don't like that! But threads like this are really good so thank you for these results and tests.
 
  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by dagon1978: Ciao Alex!
Actually the problems of sp1 are coming from the adsk guys (or alias guys?), as the mr4maya now is not developed by mental images anymore


Do you mean the renderer or the exporter ?
If the latter it looks like now they have those softimage people at that knows about MR at autodesk and are trying to take over this and fill the gap everybody using mr4maya is suffering from.
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Lazhar Rekik
 
  04 April 2009
I believe it's the integration between Maya and MR (mr4maya). MI should still be doing the renderer but it's up to Autodesk to get it to work with maya, max and now xsi. We'll never hear if there are talks between the softimage and maya people about getting stuff to work in Maya. That's all internal stuff we'll never be privvy to.
__________________
From rivers of sorrow
To oceans deep with hope
I have travelled

- Chuck Schuldiner
 
  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by lazzhar: Do you mean the renderer or the exporter ?
If the latter it looks like now they have those softimage people at that knows about MR at autodesk and are trying to take over this and fill the gap everybody using mr4maya is suffering from.

yes, i meant the translator and the integration, they've the softimage guys right now, but i think there will need a little bit of time to take advantage of this expertises
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my mental ray book my website
 
  04 April 2009
It is nice to know...

...that somebody is working on the plugin! I was under the (pessimistic) impression that mental images worked as hard as I do, which means drinking coffee for 90% of my workday instead of actually doing anything.

Really looking forward to seeing what, if anything, can be done to streamline the mental ray workflow in Maya. I haven't used Softimage or Max, but everything I've seen from both regarding mental ray leads me to believe there is indeed hope and also love in this world. Thanks for the heads-up, Dagon. I wasn't aware anyone at AutoEmpire was still working on Maya's integration!
 
  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by withego: Dear Spiralo, sorry for the delay.

I use a simple Intel Quad with 4 Giga of Ram, and since I usually don't do animations, but Archviz stills, I'm more concern about quality vs. speed.
5 hrs. for a high rez Maya & MR archviz render is not that crazy....!

As I stated in the first part of my tutorial at Gnomonology:

PLEASE NOTE:
FOR BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY WITH PREVIOUS MAYA VERSIONS
SUCH AS MAYA 2008 SP1/EXT2, A POLY SPHERE “DUMMY” OBJECT IS PROVIDED
THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THIS “DUMMY” OBJECT IS TO EXPOSE THE “CTRL GHOST SETTINGS”
BY ATTACHING THE “CTRL GHOST SETTINGS” TO THE “ENABLE GEOMETRY SHADER’ SLOT UNDER THE MENTAL RAY TAB OF THE “DUMMY” OBJECT,
WE WILL ENABLE THE “IMPORTONS IRRADIANCE PARTICLES” ATTRIBUTES

YOU MUST USE THE “DUMMY” WITH THE SCENE PROVIDED, IN MAYA 2008 SP1 FORMAT
THE LINK TO DOWNLOAD “AUTODESK MAYA 2008 SP1”, IS PROVIDED IN THE “READ ME” FILE
WITH THE MAYA 2008 SP1 SCENE, YOU DON’T NEED TO SETUP “STRING OPTIONS”
IN THE “MI DEFAULT OPTION” WINDOW, SINCE THAT ALL THE STRINGS INCLUDING
THE “EMITTED” STRING ARE ALREADY PRESENT IN THE “CTRL GHOST SETTINGS”

PLEASE NOTE:
WITH MAYA 2009, TO EXPOSE THIS FEATURES THE “DUMMY” IS NOT NEEDED
SINCE THE “IMPORTONS IRRADIANCE PARTICLES” ATTRIBUTES ARE ALREADY IMPLEMENTED UNDER THE INDIRECT LIGHTING TAB OF THE RENDER SETTINGS WINDOW


PLEASE NOTE:
IF YOU UNHIDE THE “DUMMY” OBJECT, THE “DUMMY’S” “CTRL GHOST SETTINGS”,
WILL OVERRIDE THE “IMPORTONS IRRADIANCE PARTICLES” ATTRIBUTES IN THE MAIN RENDER WINDOW

As I stated in the second part of my tutorial at Gnomonology:

THERE ARE 2 DIFFERENT WORKFLOWS FOR THE IMPORTONS EMISSION:

IMPORTONS DENSITY:
RELATED TO THE IMAGE RESOLUTION
THE NUMBER OF IMPORTONS SHOT FROM THE CAMERA PER PIXEL

IMPORTONS EMITTED:
UNRELATED TO THE IMAGE RESOLUTION
DEFINES THE AMOUNT OF IMPORTONS EMITTED

PLEASE NOTE:
LOWER VALUES SPEED UP IMPORTONS EMISSION BUT DESCREASE IMAGE QUALITY
“IMPORTONS EMITTED” USUALLY FASTER THAN THE “IMPORTONS DENSITY” WORKFLOW

PLEASE NOTE:
IN THE MAYA 2009 RENDER SETTINGS WINDOW, YOU CANNOT SET THE IMPORTONS
EMISSION OPTION LIKE WITH THE “DUMMY” “CTRL GHOST SETTINGS” IN MAYA 2008 SP1/EXT2

IN THIS EXAMPLE WE WILL USE THE “IMPORTONS EMITTED” WORKFLOW
SO WE WILL ENABLE THE “EMITTED” PARAMETER VIA THE STRING OPTION
IN THE “MI_DEFAULT_OPTONS” ATTRIBUTES WINDOW

OPEN THE OUTLINER AND UNDER DISPLAY, UNCHECK THE “DAG OBJECTS ONLY”
SCROLL DOWN UNTIL YOU FIND THE “MI_DEFAULT_OPTONS” NODE AND DOUBLE CLICK IT
IN THE “MI_DEFAULT_OPTONS” ATTRIBUTES WINDOW,
SCROLL DOWN TO THE “STRING OPTIONS” TAB
SCROLL DOWN TO THE END OF THE OF THE “STRING OPTIONS” SLOTS AND YOU WILL FIND THE LAST “STRING OPTIONS (28)”, ALREADY FILLED WITH 3 INPUT VALUES AS FOLLOWS:
NAME= importon emitted
VALUE= 100000
TYPE= integer

PLEASE NOTE:
IF YOU PREFER TO USE THE “IMPORTONS DENSITY” WORKFLOW,
JUST DELETE THE “STRING OPTIONS (28)” AND INPUT A VALUE OF “0.1”
IN THE “IMPORTONS DENSITY” PARAMETER OF THE RENDER SETTINGS WINDOW

PLEASE NOTE:
INSTEAD OF “0.1” YOU CAN USE HIGHER VALUES FOR THE “IMPORTONS DENSITY”
IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE POWER OF YOUR SYSTEM AND THE AMOUT OF RAMS
AVAILABLE

This are the settings that you have to optimize to reduce render times.

Since Importons & Irradiance Particles Algorithm is an alternative to the standard FG/GI workflow,
you can use all the Maya & MR standard lights, materials and features supported by MR,
just like you use them usually with the standard MR FG/GI workflow.

I have enclosed a few links that might be useful, mostly the last one where one user "daniohayon" posted a nice animation created with this rendering techniques.

Hope it helps....!

Ciao...!

Alex

PS.
I'm preparing a new Maya & MR Archviz tutorial based on the famous "Sponza" model, that will explore the Importons and Irradiance particles workflow
discussed in the second and third part of my previous tutorial, used together with Maya & MR Proxy Assemblies and BSP2.
It will explore also the new Maya 2009 Render Passes features.



http://gnomonology.com/inst/16908
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=621727
http://forum.lamrug.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1608
http://imakeu.com/Work/AnimTest.html
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...277#post5336277


Thanks Alexi. I appreciate this very much.

I just have a few more questions, being new to this. If irradiance particles and importons are the alternative, are they to be used in conjunction with FG/GI? I noticed that in the last thread you listed for me a lot of people are using IP in conjunction with FG.

Sounds stupid but I don't know what the term IRR stands for. In the last thread someone had rendered a scene using IP + IRR. What does the IRR stand for?

arg, I read the whole post and then forgot that you were using ctrl_ghost. Well, at least I can maybe have enough info that you gave me to work without the CTRL_Ghost.

Well, looks like the mac user is screwed again. Anyone know how to compile for OS X? I don't even see a Vista compilation.

Again, thank you and I'm glad I helped revitalized a year old post that shouldn't have been pushed under the rug! I guess you were just 1 year ahead of your time and everyone is catching up now that these techniques are featured in maya 2009.

A stable version of anything would be nice when it comes to Maya and 3ds max. I just wish that Mental Ray had a mix_layers so that all users could enjoy it with outsourced renderfarms.
 
  04 April 2009
Originally Posted by spiralof5:
Well, looks like the mac user is screwed again. Anyone know how to compile for OS X? I don't even see a Vista compilation.
.


Just an fyi, there's no such thing as a Vista compilation. It's either 32 or 64bit on the PC. Both of those can be found on mymentalray.com under the shaders tab.
__________________
From rivers of sorrow
To oceans deep with hope
I have travelled

- Chuck Schuldiner
 
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