" H " has taken over all Effects Jobs, almost all of it. is it good or bad ?

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Old 02 February 2012   #46
IMHO, Maya will remain the default application. Why? Because I fear Houdini is too low-level for most artists e.g. modellers, texture artists etc, who just want to get the job done without having to think of their work in terms of nodes, and Maya lets them do just that -- point an click and tweak vertices while Maya builds the no-so-pretty scene graph. Houdini's scene graph by comparison is a lot more efficient because its hand-crafted and optimized and is almost certainly faster and much more configurable. Translation: complete control. Alas this is not the sort of control most modelling tasks require. Little wonder why modelling in Houdini is currently a pain, and will probably remain so.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #47
i agree with you graphicsRat in a short term period aka 3 to 5 years ....

in fact you always need to make the perfect blend beewteen Artist / Technical Artist / R&D.
Maya was and is still an excellent blend beetween those 3 world , thus is popularity.

But for what i see, Technical guys like to use strong tools and are not afraid of script, maths and all those wonderful stuff ...

Artist love intuitive tool, where you get a direct feedback without solving any pbs at each operation ....

I do think that for exemple a Blender/Houdini workflow could be a strong alternative in the coming years.

- Blender is excellent at modeling, UV , texturing and has some nice real time features for lighting
- Houdini is excellent in all the technical areas like Rigging, Cloth, Fur , FX, Shading etc ...

a workflow where artist do all there task in blender and then the technical artist do there task n houdini could be possible i think.

the big question mark is the Animation Workflow, and this is where Maya is still the KIng at the moment.

but imagine that for exemple you have one character to animate.
- you have a simple rig , with proxy geo in blender, your animators do their anin on blender
- you have the exact same ring in houdini BUT , with muscle rig , Cloth , Fur etc ....
the technical animator import the anim on the houdini rig and work on all the character FX.

there must be a way to transmit joint anim info and controlers anim info from one package to an other.

when you will need to read the geo of 1000 characters in a giant forest you will still be able to rely on a very strong software. cause all the final shots will be rendered in houdini with mantra or prman.

so you do the artistic stuff on a software that cost you 0$ and you do the technical stuff on a soft that cost you 2000$. you only need to pay 7000$ for your FX dpt ....


of course its pure science fiction now, but as it is the workflow i'm trying to use now, i think it could be one alternative in the coming years !
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Last edited by SebKaine : 02 February 2012 at 04:40 PM.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #48
@m0z I dont think so, I would say they are still working on live action at this stage.
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Old 02 February 2012   #49
Would be incredible to be a part of the fx team for a film like that!
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Old 02 February 2012   #50
Originally Posted by mandark1011: Would be incredible to be a part of the fx team for a film like that!


It is. When I first got there I thought I was pretty clever but then after a while with so many talented fx guys I felt totally stupid
But whats amazing is it feels like this huge machine with all these different sized cogs slowly turning 24/7 and churning out a movie shot by shot. Working on Tintin was awesome because the whole thing is fully 3d animated. Every morning Id watch Steven Speilberg on Podcast go through the shots completed the night before, feet up with 3D glasses on and sipping on a Pina Colada from his mega-yacht, saying things like "Love it, stick it in the movie", very funny to watch.
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Last edited by Aikiman : 02 February 2012 at 03:03 AM.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #51
Originally Posted by mr Bob: unless you have the tools supplied to you from R&D your going to be spending a few days writing some Mel.
b


I disagree completely, it takes minutes to write mel/pymel/python scripts. there isnt much of a stretch between connecting some nodes visually and writing the same idea down as code. if you can do one in minutes, you can do the other in minutes too.

if you are equally comfortable at writing code as you are at connecting nodes. My assertion is that the code writer will be VASTLY faster, just because typing is more natural and direct than mouse.. lol.
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Last edited by stooch : 02 February 2012 at 08:56 PM.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #52
Originally Posted by varomix: SlowDini LOL

SO NOT TRUE

if you know how to use it is damn faster than any other software, if you wanna use it like other software you suffer.

Cheers!!


are you implying that i simply dont know how to use houdini "CORRECTLY" lol.. puhlease. I started using the app in 2002, never really got into it as most of my work is as a generalist/vfx setup - not JUST as a VFX TD. btw, its only fairly recently taht houdini got useable for generalist work, back when i started on it, it was an atrocious experience. Even now, the modeling is sorely lacking, when it comes down to it, xsi ice is a much more natural combination of high and low level tools.

knowing how to use it, still doesnt eliminate the low level stuff taht you love so much from taking much longer to setup. yes its faster in certain cases, but for most generalist workflows its NOT faster. maybe you just dont know how to use maya right...

anyway the proof is all around you, you dont see houdini being the be all end all solution for anyoine. its merely a plugin for maya... like i said, im eager to see what 12 does. but for now, raw speed comparison between houdini fluids vs maya/fume is terrible for houdini. absolute ownage.

liquid simulation? realflow beats houdini like a red headed step child... its NOT a tool that was regarded by anyone as fast. thats why everyone is excited with 12 being a GAME CHANGER... because its going to be finally fast enough - hence the game changer comment... i hope that is true, not trying to knock it but there is definitelly a degree of fanboism wafting with some of these impassioned posts.

as an FX only TD, you should know houdini... period.

is it the best app out there? hell no.

am i excited to see 12? sure.
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Last edited by stooch : 02 February 2012 at 08:55 PM.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #53
I think learning Houdini is situation dependent and not necessarily essential, although learning it definitely increases an artists ability and understanding of how data flows. Like I mentioned above Weta pipeline is fully Maya entrenched and there is nothing our FX department cannot do. Sure we dont use Maya for everything in FX like water sim and rigid body sim, having said that though Bullet has been integrated in Maya so it 'feels' like you are using Maya (this is the way it should have been Im not sure why they got DMM involved if a couple of TDs can write a decent rigid solver using Bullet). In actuality the solver is separate from the DG network (the DG slows it down because of how it evaluates its nodes) and that makes bullet fast, throw in multi-threading and you fall in love with Maya again.

So thats the reality at Weta.

If one plans to stay at Weta for eternity than I dont see a need to learn Houdini because it wont become the main software, inhouse tools will which will use Maya or Houdini UI for example. If you prefer to work in a node based environment then there is always SOuP which is a 'hybrid' of Houdini workflow, still not as flexible as Houdini but thats because of the restraints in Maya architecture or API rather than lack of nodes.

Then to agree to disagree, if you want to work around world in as many places as possible then of course Houdini is a pre-requisite. I think Houdini is a beautiful programme and with the right amount of training, doesn't take that long to familiarize yourself with it but of course takes longer to master. But my argument is that you dont need to learn Houdini to become a better artist there are other ways to do that, but it will create more opportunities for you to find work.
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Old 02 February 2012   #54
After reading this thread, i have nothing to share but this:
http://youtu.be/QEkuHBpvJw0
true story!


btw. very nice reel Viki,.. houdini is not so hard to learn and maya is awesome; mel is not hard as u know ofcrs.. and python is a common programing language .. so what the deal?
i start learning python, week ago and it's so easy comparing to mel...
plus, you can use soup, and i hope fracture-fx soon will be in our hands,..

good luck,..
 
Old 02 February 2012   #55
Originally Posted by Nanofarad: After reading this thread, i have nothing to share but this:
http://youtu.be/QEkuHBpvJw0
true story!


"Crush the blacks" an uprising for color correction.
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Old 02 February 2012   #56
Hey everyone, so this is my first post on CgTalk. I probably should have posted sooner considering I've been following a lot of you're guys threads for the past year or so. But I'm a little curious on you're guys opinions for us Vfx artist who are still in school. I'm graduating from Full Sail in two weeks and I've been putting the final touches on my demoreel. Although I love this school (due to the realistic time frames they give us to put out work), the Vfx department in my opinion is a little lacking. It's not that they aren't knowledgeable, I have the highest respect for my teachers. But we all know VFX (software wise) is updating monthly, currently we only get taught maya dynamics. I've had to teach myself Realflow and other plug-in/software in my free time. I've always had the intention of learning Houdini, but this thread has me wondering if I should start learning sooner then later. I just wanna know what you guys think on the matter.
 
Old 02 February 2012   #57
Originally Posted by AlanFox: Hey everyone, so this is my first post on CgTalk. I probably should have posted sooner considering I've been following a lot of you're guys threads for the past year or so. But I'm a little curious on you're guys opinions for us Vfx artist who are still in school. I'm graduating from Full Sail in two weeks and I've been putting the final touches on my demoreel. Although I love this school (due to the realistic time frames they give us to put out work), the Vfx department in my opinion is a little lacking. It's not that they aren't knowledgeable, I have the highest respect for my teachers. But we all know VFX (software wise) is updating monthly, currently we only get taught maya dynamics. I've had to teach myself Realflow and other plug-in/software in my free time. I've always had the intention of learning Houdini, but this thread has me wondering if I should start learning sooner then later. I just wanna know what you guys think on the matter.
Well Alan, I went through the same program at full sail as you(and I agree with what you are saying about time constraints) and I would just say learn as much about different pieces of software you can. It never hearts to know how to use houdini because it opens other opportunities. So I'd say start when you feel your up to taking on the Beast of houdini. lol
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Old 02 February 2012   #58
Originally Posted by AlanFox: Hey everyone, so this is my first post on CgTalk. I probably should have posted sooner considering I've been following a lot of you're guys threads for the past year or so. But I'm a little curious on you're guys opinions for us Vfx artist who are still in school. I'm graduating from Full Sail in two weeks and I've been putting the final touches on my demoreel. Although I love this school (due to the realistic time frames they give us to put out work), the Vfx department in my opinion is a little lacking. It's not that they aren't knowledgeable, I have the highest respect for my teachers. But we all know VFX (software wise) is updating monthly, currently we only get taught maya dynamics. I've had to teach myself Realflow and other plug-in/software in my free time. I've always had the intention of learning Houdini, but this thread has me wondering if I should start learning sooner then later. I just wanna know what you guys think on the matter.


if you want to do effects you should learn all related software.

fume, krakatoa, houdini, maya, realflow, learn them all. the more you know, the more you work.

also, just as important as the above mentioned software, you really should be comfortable with python as it is used in all of the mentioned programs, i can guarantee you that you will have to use it during your career..
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Old 02 February 2012   #59
In reply to nathansims100 and stooch though (thanks for the input) I find it's easy to say, learn maya as well as Houdini but, I find that quite hard personally. I've been learning Maya dynamics recently and have enjoyed doing so and am starting to create my own simple pieces of work but now I'm concerned as to whether I should continue to do so after reading some of this thread. Basically what I mean is that I find it quite hard to learn both Maya and Houdini at the same time because I feel that to learn one sufficiently requires so much time and effort. Am I alone in thinking that?

I think it would be completely different if I was already at an employable level with Maya mind, but all in all what would one suggest? It's not like it's a case of not being employable with a background of primarily Maya dynamics now, is it? For me now it seems like the best thing to do may be to continue on with my Maya work, build up a good portfolio and then maybe learn Houdini from then? I just feel like learning Houdini as well is going to slow down my Maya progress quite a bit but I don't want to put so much time into learning Maya to end up finding it hard to become employed...
 
Old 02 February 2012   #60
Hi Alex, i will just give you my pov and of course many person would say the exact opposite so ... take it with a grain of salt

I think that the two most important point you must focus on are :
- Train you eye on how to create beautiful FX, often the answer at this question is not behind any complex tool or fancy plugin , its by using and layering many simple element that you can create in any package. The key in beauty in FX is most of the time behind your compositing package. You will quickly discover that 10 average pass , nicely composited can make great FX. So learn how to achieve what you need by dividing your pb in simple element. and train your eyes to know what you need to achieve your goal and How to get it.

- Learn how to be a good coder, softwares changes programming logic that is behind every software, never change. You must learn how to code your tools to enhance your workflow and efficiency.

So the final question is wich one :
- the easy way , with very short learning curve is MAX, you will have a perfect fluid solver, a perfect Particle render, and many great tool. i will not go that way

- The hardest would be houdini. behind houdini is very low level logic that you will get when you will be good at coding. Without coding logic the learning curve will be very long and you risk to be lost in all this complexity ! the big risk is that you fall in the Technical Fanboyism and you forget the ouput , How to make nice image ... Not to mention that houdini don't need many coding as far as you code with nodes visually

- So its pretty strange but maya is for me the best package to start in FX , cause you will need to learn how to code very quickly, without MEL or PYTHON in maya you do nothing. but maya except from is atrocious particle rendering is still a very alroad package. Maya Fluids is very good, nCloth excellent, nDynamics good but Buggy , but in maya you will learn in the painfull but rewarding way.

when you will have good demo, good coding knowledge and you know what pass you need to build your FX , start Houdini , cause it will offer you a deeper level of knowledge , but again at a higher price .... complexity ....

Cheers and GLuck !
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Last edited by SebKaine : 02 February 2012 at 10:03 PM.
 
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