Lightwave Skeleton File for Motion Builder Users

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  06 June 2003
Quote: Originally posted by dzogchen
May I know what modifications you did to the model pose?
I have the same problem of knees bending the wrong way after characterize.

Btw thanks for the skeletons it save me a lot of time

in MB u can easily see that the start pose is a "T" stance pose. so, he probably put the char into that pose, then simply made the skelegon fit to the model's mesh ( its quite easy, start modifying the lenght and position of bones, then if required, their rotation, but not so much. observe the MB pre made chars, before).

Then save your object and load it in layout. at this point, u have to add a null, the reference null, at the origin, between the feet.
be also sure that the hip bone is the parent of leg up link bones. if not parent in scene editor.

if all is good in your scene and the naming of bones corresponds to that of MB and u have setted your eventual weightmaps, u are ready to export the scene, so save the scene before, save all objects, and then export in .fbx.

then your characterizing will go great!:smile:

hope this can help you.
Nemoid | Illustrator | 3D artist
.::Creating for you::.
  06 June 2003
hmmm . . . let's see here, I've reparented everything in layout, but it won't auto-characterize in MB. That is, I've got to manually set everything in the "character definition" tab and then it'll characterize . . .

Oh yeah, also, when i do actually characterize it gives me warnings like "rightlegroll is 3.598 degrees off it's axis," or something similar. The rig seems to still work fine, but why is this happening?

And lastly (takes a breath), the FBX file I export from layout is like 26mb . . . that just seems preposterously huge, yet all i've got in the scene is my character with the skeleton . . .


Last edited by sensai2nd : 06 June 2003 at 05:17 PM.
  06 June 2003
i also had to do that. it was quite a Nightmare.this works , however, because in this way, u have bones setted even if naming is incorrect.

1) go into Mb help file, or MB itself and put down a list of the naming necessary to the bones , it can be helpful for u to understand better, and also control if the skel is named correctly, but i warn u IT IS named correctly.

link bones that doesn't appear in MB template chars, and appear in the skel don't influence your characterizing. don't remove them, don't rename them.

2) char in t stance as in MB current position.

3) if u see the skel downloaded in the thread, u see how its z oriented. your char must be oriented the same.

4) control and rotate bones like u see them in MB

5) with the skel, u have only to reparent the "hips" question. read my last reply.

6) remember to save your scene and obj.

7) deselect your mesh in MB before characterizing, then drag the character template over your mesh. the char must appear green wireframe for a second if all works fine.

8) 26Megs??!!DOH! are u sure u have only one mesh into your scene? also if u have consistent textures try and see if removing them work.actually i can't see othr things wich can cause that size

yor mesh must be freezeb in modeler too, to work properly.

last but not least, u are setting your scene only in the 0 key, true? be sure of that.
Nemoid | Illustrator | 3D artist
.::Creating for you::.

Last edited by Nemoid : 06 June 2003 at 05:39 PM.
  06 June 2003
that does sound huge.
I've got 2 chars fully rigged and one with morphs, a simple set, and an audio file and it's only 8mb.

Maybe you accidentally have like two rigs fighting each other or something.
  06 June 2003
First off, is MB giving you any messages when you attemp to characterize? That is when you drag and drop the character asset onto your model. It sounds like there may still be some bone naming problems. After you attemp this and go to the Character Definition panel in the Base required section does it say "No model" for all or just some of the Control Rig?

With regard to your second question I think there is a tolerance from some arbitrary setting before MB starts report things like this. However, I've not seen it hinder performance.

On your 3rd issue I've noticed the same thing. My current model when frozen contains about 20K polys, and the scene file that I export to FBX has 1 light and 1 camera. The export FBX file is approximately 20M. I'm guessing that they(Kaydara) have fixed data structures for everything that MB supports, and that these are being written out to the FXB with default values wether they are being used or not.

  06 June 2003
thanks for the feedback guys . . .

Nemoid - I've rechecked the naming convention and everything seems fine and following MB rules.

CMAN and ub52 - I can drag/drop the character asset into the scene fine, but when I go to the character definition panel, it shows <no model> for everything, base included. So, if I try to chracterize at this point, it says "base links are missing."

I'm also gonna' try to get rid of some textures to reduce file size, but, still, 26mb's . . . something I'm doing must be screwy, though it's not doubl meshes or skeletons.

And my last dumb-dumb question: I've only been freezing my object in layout when the FBX exporter prompts me to do so . . . is this an issue? And (showing I'm a true neophyte) how do you freeze something in modeller?

Peace. You guys rock.

Last edited by sensai2nd : 06 June 2003 at 06:30 PM.
  06 June 2003
When you drag and drop the Character asset into the viewer window are you doing so right over your model? It should turn green before you drop it, otherwise MB does not know which model to associated the Control rig with.

I think if you do your freeze during the export out of Layout it freezes at a sub-d level of 1. If you want more, do your freezing in Modeler.

  06 June 2003
i freezed my model in modeler, and saved it,
before constructing my scene.

also i found better and more secure, to rebuild the scene everytime i tried to damn export, because in that way i was sure that nothing could interfere with my work.

if the naming is correct, (case sensitive!!) and all is parented well in hierarchies , the null reference is there etc, then i see no reason the scene not to work.
of course,if just one point of the rules is missing, MB will not autocharacterize.

there must be some error.

also try to check if u have some 1 point poly in modeler both in the skelegon layer both in the object and erase it
Nemoid | Illustrator | 3D artist
.::Creating for you::.
  06 June 2003
alright, making some progress here . . . sort of. . . finally got it to auto-characterize thanks to your guys' tips:

ub52 - yeah, dragging the character asset onto the actual mesh did it; before I was just dragging it into the scene.

nemoid - umm, reference null? duh!? okay got that now . . . and . .

It auto-characterized!!! But now the mesh and skeleton are totally seperated!!!!

Man!!! Must . . . not . . . quit . . . almost . . . there . . .

How is the reference null supposed to be parented? The whole character to it?
  06 June 2003
Hi sensai2nd,

The referenece node is ontop of your characters hierarchy, and acts as a 'global' transform node, to offset your characters position, orientation or scale. You can simply create a Null and parent your character to it, and use that in the character definition panel.

Curtis Garton
Product Manager
Autodesk Media & Entertainment
  06 June 2003
Finally!!! and how u can see its not so difficult, uh?

Sensai i hope u activated your character after characterizing, so that u can use it with the char controls window (that with the puppet) to do so, after characterizing, co to the character setting window. and click active.
read the online manual , wich isn't not so bad, for further information about that if u have problems.

Nemoid | Illustrator | 3D artist
.::Creating for you::.
  06 June 2003
Man, Nemoid, you ain't kidding!!! LOL

Yeah, everything goes smoothly now and that control rig is just pure sweetness!

Really appreciate the tips . . .

My only dilemma, now, is figuring out how to reduce my file sizes . . . my .fbx files, which only have a mesh and skeleton, are exporting at like 25+ mbs!!! I finally got one model, the Proton Noodle model, to export at around 5.5mbs, which, at last seems reasonable . . . but I haven't been able to do the same with my own character that I'm trying to use (the guy in my avatar) . . .

I must be doing something wrong, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out what it is . . .

  06 June 2003
i am happy with your progress!!

What i only know,
is that MB does not support subpatches, so that u have to freeze your model ctrl+d in modeler before sending to layout. so u can freeze it, save with another name, adapt the skel, etc. and send to layout.

now , what i can say is analyze your model, so that the amount of polys is the amount needed. i don' know how is the Proton model, however its easy to understand if a mesh contains the exact amount of polys.
hope this can work.

otherwise: what about trying with another model?

once i made an head model wich worked so fine in modeler. then, when i sent it to layout it crashed everytime for some reason i haven't understood yet.:((( u can't imagine the pain to reach and visualize it in layout!!!i got mad about this.

ah! got another tip: in the export.fbx dialog box, uncheck animation u don't need to export animations from layout.
also, in MB choose NO animation, when u open the scene.

Nemoid | Illustrator | 3D artist
.::Creating for you::.

Last edited by Nemoid : 06 June 2003 at 01:21 PM.
  06 June 2003
Thanks Cman for your reply to my problem of the weird bend knees! Indeed my character is just facing the wrong direction! Silly me! Now I have 2 more problems.

1) The joint spheres are so tiny that I have difficulties selecting them. I know I could use the Character Control panel but for the fingers you can only select them from viewer ( or am I wrong?) What's worse you have to select the yellow solid inside the wireframe sphere at the joint in order to bend the fingers. I have to zoom in and out so often it is getting stressful.

2) I have bones for the ears but how do I get MB to recognise it so that I can animate them??

Thanks in advance!
  06 June 2003
you could use the "navigator window" to select your finger bones, other than selecting in the viewer . . .
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