A cool ray trace game development, interested?

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Old 01 January 2013   #16
Sounds interesting. I'd be curious to see it in motion once you have your videos created.
I wonder though, how much would the current engines be able to do if they were limited to a small enclosed scene like you are talking about.
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Old 01 January 2013   #17
Hi Lagavulin16,

That's precisely what I'm after. A small arcade action game with obviously forward thinking graphics, and great gameplay mechanics.

I long for the days where I don't have to sit through watching FMV after FMV, and some forced storyline.

Get to the action, short, snappy but spectacular.


Jules
 
Old 01 January 2013   #18
Creating a game involves so many cross disciplines, and is such a precarious balancing act...2 years is being EXTREMELY generous. And that would be with having some game design experience on your side, or a really talented designer with you.

Honestly, do the tech demo first. Get all of those production tools and pipelines in place. From there you can move onto a game.

I don't mean to discourage you, but I think it would be better to attack this type of project from a much more realistic and doable angle.

Your description about the scope of your project was:
The game... I'm thinking something like the start of Blade Runner. Glass buildings everywhere, spaceships, with dog-fights and just shooting and blowing sh*t up.

Now just that description alone brings to mind masses of content and asset creation. Would it be a parametrically developed city? Would it be a game that is a flight sim? Racer? Rail shooter?

If you want to create a game, you need MUCH more than "just shooting and blowing shit up".

Once you have a concept and general direction, things can move quite quickly-but your initial design needs to be TIGHT. I put together a demo for an RPG like the original Fallouts in 2 weeks of night time sessions-but only after 2 years of engine experience, and working on a design outline for about a month (again, in my spare time).

I still maintain that you should put together a tech demo showing the graphic capabilities you are wanting to push, and then perhaps put out some feelers for an experienced designer. Who knows, there may be a promising game mod out there who would want to convert to your engine instead of using the big existing ones?
 
Old 01 January 2013   #19
Jules,

I think that what you are doing is exactly what the gaming world needs.

A move away from (by now) seriously boring & same looking raster graphics with some bloom effect and a bit of fake or baked GI, to true realtime raytracing.

I would be very interested to see some video demos of your engine in action!

Don't give up on the idea because some closed-minded people tell you it isn't worth it.

If your engine is good/fast, it will eventually find some use in some commercial field - Games, Simulators, VR, Medical Imaging, Product Viz. Who knows where it can be used once it is finished, or developed enough?

There are many, many areas in Computer Graphics that could benefit from realtime raytracing.

Also, if you manage to get high FPS from your engine, maybe even Nvidia and AMD/ATI might be interested in collaborating on it.

And I'm not just talking driver-support, but maybe creating GPUs capable of accellerating your realtime raytracing very effectively at hardware level.

Keep pursuing your idea of a game demo, even if it is small/simple! And show us some cool video demos of your engine while you are at it!
 
Old 01 January 2013   #20
I've definitely read articles about studies that have shown that people don't actually like hyper realism in games. Personally I'm a bigger fan of stylised graphics than realistic graphics, simply because stylisation allows for greater escapism.

Secondly, the way a game looks isn't nearly as important as how good the gameplay, dialogue and story are.
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Old 01 January 2013   #21
Also relevant: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...hp#.UOX8mnwgGSM
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Old 01 January 2013   #22
Originally Posted by leigh: Secondly, the way a game looks isn't nearly as important as how good the gameplay, dialogue and story are.


CRYSIS seriously rocked the world of PC gaming with its never-before-seen graphics.

Lots of people bought new computers or upgraded their old ones just to be able to play Crysis.

It was the most talked about game for maybe 2 years.

And it made CryEngine the No. 1 game engine in terms of visual fidelity overnight.

Even Chris Roberts is licensing CryEngine 3 for his space game "Star Citizen".

So yes, visual quality in games matters.

Also consider this: There are many people who don't play games because they don't like the "artificial looking" raster graphics.

If games could be made completely photoreal, or even just "Cinematic Quality", this could pull tens of millions of new people into gaming.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #23
Oh sorry, I forgot how PC gamers tend to be totally obsessed with e-peen.

/only kinda joking.
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Old 01 January 2013   #24
Originally Posted by DePaint: Also consider this: There are many people who don't play games because they don't like the "artificial looking" raster graphics.

If games could be made completely photoreal, or even just "Cinematic Quality", this could pull tens of millions of new people into gaming.


I totally disagree, and can't really imagine why you believe either of these two statements. You seriously think there's a huge demographic of people out there waiting for photorealism in games before they decide they want to play?

For a start, gaming is already huge. You'd be hard pressed to find a significant number of people under the age of 30 who don't already play games, even just games on their mobile phones. The success of "casual gaming" (I hate that term but it's a recognisable one) demonstrates very clearly that fun factor, addictiveness and gameplay are the primary appealing motivators for people, not super realistic graphics. In the UK, the game industry sells more than any other form of entertainment - there simply aren't "tens of millions" of people waiting in the wings for gaming to reach a new level of realism before they're going to join in, because you either enjoy games, or you don't. And the ones who enjoy them are already playing them.

Hardcore PC gamers (by which I mean people, especially younger males, who actively define themselves using the term "gamers", considering it a core part of their identity) are notorious for demanding realism so they can supe up their computers and brag but they're a constantly shrinking market and don't represent the gaming world as a whole.
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Old 01 January 2013   #25
Really, in the grander scheme of things, a game is immersive if it draws you into the plot, characters, action, or whatever is going on..realism is great to look at in demos and when you are seeing impressive vistas, not saying it doesn't add value, but it's always going to be the storytelling or art-directed moments that make me personally go "whoa".

Most of the amazing moments I remember from playing games were simply from the composition of the shots, colors, design, and most importantly, what was happening in the story at the time and the emotional impact. I didn't care how many polys were being flung at me or how accurate a reflection was.

Look at the evolution of most games and you'll see a steady progression towards realism just because it's what you do, but the stuff that works does so regardless of tech or realism level. A racing game is going to be cooler looking if the cars and environments look realistic, but it all means nothing if the track layouts, handling, or controls are terrible.

How much of any game's success in the history of games has been looks/engine over gameplay?
 
Old 01 January 2013   #26
Hi Leigh,

I think the market is big enough for all sorts of games. Photorealistic games might just open up a whole new genre.

I'm not into games with poor graphics, some people are. I couldn't put cash down quick enough for an Oculus Rift dev kit (coming in March). I certainly want more immersion and realism in my games. Certainly want my engine working for this VR headset.


Jules
 
Old 01 January 2013   #27
Also forgot to mention:

Originally Posted by DePaint: CRYSIS seriously rocked the world of PC gaming with its never-before-seen graphics.

Lots of people bought new computers or upgraded their old ones just to be able to play Crysis.

It was the most talked about game for maybe 2 years.

And it made CryEngine the No. 1 game engine in terms of visual fidelity overnight.

Even Chris Roberts is licensing CryEngine 3 for his space game "Star Citizen".

So yes, visual quality in games matters.


Crysis sold something like 3 million units. Halo 4, which came out just over a month ago, has already sold more than that, and Halo isn't realistic. Similarly, Borderlands 2, a highly stylised celshaded looking game which also came put late last year, has also sold over 5 million copies already. So realism doesn't matter nearly as much as you think it does.
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Old 01 January 2013   #28
a "hyper reality" real-time graphics engine and you don't include a video?



I do go for the "total" realistic graphics/mechanics approach thing in games, but only in the sim genre. I love to see the attention to detail in the avionics system of an F-18 or space shuttle game or something but it's more a scientific and engineering based interest than design orientated. That can be just as "escapist"

In blade runner Syd Mead who is like the lord of concept designers did most of the futuristic stuff under the direction of Ridley Scott who had the best artisans in the world doing it. Its all in the artistry in other words. He faked a ton of stuff not because it was more realistic but because it looked better, he would probably put smoke in front of all the windows anyway
 
Old 01 January 2013   #29
Originally Posted by DePaint: If games could be made completely photoreal, or even just "Cinematic Quality", this could pull tens of millions of new people into gaming.


I actually laughed out loud at this absurd statement. What exactly is your source for this amazing statistic?

As for OP, it doesn't seem like any amount of logic or reasoning is going to dissuade him from his core belief that gamers want more realism. Leigh hit the nail on the head (as did others) that realism for realism's sake is bo-ring. Good game design, level layout, and control schemes will trump graphics every time, no matter how realistic (or not).
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Old 01 January 2013   #30
Originally Posted by Pyke: Creating a game involves so many cross disciplines, and is such a precarious balancing act...2 years is being EXTREMELY generous. And that would be with having some game design experience on your side, or a really talented designer with you.

I can't imagine there will the luxury of having a dedicated game designer. A lot of it will be people on the project chipping in on what they want to see in a cool looking arcade shooter. Of course we will be working off plans.

Originally Posted by Pyke: Honestly, do the tech demo first. Get all of those production tools and pipelines in place. From there you can move onto a game.

I already have a pipeline in place for 3DS Max. Maya is next. I've also been using texture compression tools, specifying and creating LOD meshes, creating bumps maps etc. The tech demo of the graphics is being done with a film company so that will be sorted.

Originally Posted by Pyke: I don't mean to discourage you, but I think it would be better to attack this type of project from a much more realistic and doable angle.
Your description about the scope of your project was:
The game... I'm thinking something like the start of Blade Runner. Glass buildings everywhere, spaceships, with dog-fights and just shooting and blowing sh*t up.

This is why the scope is limited. No water or fluid effects. No trees. No sub-surface scattering skin and motion capture/rigging for the first glass city level. I haven't thought of procedural parametric developed city, but I know Maya C++ pretty well now, so could build that facility.

Originally Posted by Pyke: Once you have a concept and general direction, things can move quite quickly-but your initial design needs to be TIGHT. I put together a demo for an RPG like the original Fallouts in 2 weeks of night time sessions-but only after 2 years of engine experience, and working on a design outline for about a month (again, in my spare time).

The world is small. I'm thinking an outpost on a remote moon. A range of different flying vehicles from one person carriers to small ships. Materials; plenty of metal, reflective/refractive glass with different colours and refractive indices. Nice angular glass buildings for casting long soft shadows. Plenty of bump mapping/displacement mapping for the terrain. Basically anything to show off the engine.

A range of alien ships, each with their own special abilities. This city is being attacked by an alien invasion setting up their own bases on the planet/moon.

Any cut scenes, filmed with real actors in a green screen studio. I'm also a filmmaker so that part is easy, and I have access to a film studio.

Be good to concentrate on tight-knit realistic dog fights. Trying to immerse the player in realism.

I understand that this style of game will only appeal to certain types of gamers. Can't please everyone.

Jules
 
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