considering a divorce after 10 years with Maya, if 2009 isn't spectacular

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  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by dagon1978: there is a similar method in mental ray 3.6 (with a shader in maya 2008 sp1/ext2), pixel cache, passes, approximation probably maya need a bit of work, but you have to know also how to work with it...


Before I post my comments I'd like to know which method are you referring at exactly.

p
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  07 July 2008
Sorry for the cheap "the great maya community" rhetoric.
Feel free make additional critics to any other point I made.

Edit: creating shortcuts for every quick selection set takes even longer buexe.
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Last edited by mustique : 07 July 2008 at 01:45 PM.
 
  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by NaughtyNathan: hmm.. my quick selection sets take 0.24 seconds. If you're doing something that often or taking that long about it you should look into MEL to automate some of the work or adapt your workflow.

If Autodesk DID introduce component remembering functionality the first thing I would do is turn it off. MEL gives users the power to make Maya work how they want, not force a particular workflow on them.

:nathaN


5 seconds or 0.5 was not my point. It's a great helper for modelling, that's it.

I almost regret to have mentioned this feature anyways,
as if it was the major focus of my posts regarding the Maya UI.
As if remembering component selections would save the world.


No it won't save anything. But a script editor like MelScriptPro and a couple of other things mentioned in this thread would at least help productivity wouldn't it.
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Last edited by mustique : 07 July 2008 at 01:28 PM.
 
  07 July 2008
I didn't want to interject, but....seriously: how can you expect a CAD company to develop a creative 3D application? Look at the Autodesk website for crying out loud. It's all about CAD! 99% of the revenue comes from CAD software. If you seriously believe that Autodesk is going to pump (let alone already is doing so) an ungodly amount of money into R&D to build a mother of all Mayas, or better yet a holy grail of modern 3d applications, then you are seriously stoned. I know. I'm just as dissapointed as the next Maya oldtimer
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  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by hanskloss: I didn't want to interject, but....seriously: how can you expect a CAD company to develop a creative 3D application?


so 3DSMAX isn't a creative 3D application?
 
  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by NaughtyNathan: so 3DSMAX isn't a creative 3D application?


Last time I checked Autodesk didn't create 3ds max they BOUGHT it as they did Maya, Mudbox, Motionbuiler, Showcase, StudioTools, Sketchbook, but that's not the point I was trying to make.
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  07 July 2008
yeah I'm pretty excited about the potential of XSI more so than I have been about a 3D app in a very long time. prolly since the release of Maya 7. But at the same time I feel horribly depressed of the whole thing the situation is like knowing that your best friend that you work with everyday has terminal cancer. But quite frankly that sick friend is holding me back. I'm sick of wondering when Maya is gonna crash on me. I mean app application for serious prodcution work should not crash 3-4+ times a day. that is just unacceptable. And I sick of being yeah it should be in there but it is not so script it my self. Screw that I have work that I need to do. I don't have time to develop things that autodesk should be providing for the amount of money I'm spending. Nto to mention that with 3ds max a program that cost half as much as what I'm spending on Maya gets 999 node of mental ray to render with thru back burner and yet i'm on my own with no render passes and no render managment and then on top of it I ahve to pay $1k a node for mental ray stand alone? WTF? as a matter of fact you know what I think I'm gonna even be hard pressed to wait till Maya 2009 is announced.

I mean ICE is cool but it has absolutly nothing to do with the reasons that we want to switch to XSI.

I would say that this is the list of demands to keep our business.

1: Unlimited batch rendering with mentalray. back burner would be nice but I can live with out it.
2: fix the damn crashing constantly. 7.0.1 was so freaking stable and Audesk has turned it to a program that is even less stable that 3ds max. I didn't even think that was possible.
3: render Elements, passes or what ever you wish to call them you know what the hell I'm talkning about. they are in every other damn package yet you keep charging us mopre than the other pacakges it is about time we start getting our moneis worth.
4: polygon tools that work. if I take a mesh of a head and do a difference boolean with a cube then damnit I want a cube with a face cut out of it for the result. not a blank scne or a crash. Plus remove the history funchtion for things like extract seperate and combine. all it dones is make the funtion somtimes take 20-30 minutes. when they dont crash.

ok I think that woudl pretty much do it Good luck getting that all in by Siggraph
 
  07 July 2008
With ICE, XSI has proven that it's once again brilliantly built from the ground up.

This is due to the core architecture, (being able to constantly mod the core without breaking existing tools). That's why they managed to implement Motor, Gator, Delta referencing system, FaceRobot along with vast rendering and bug fixes in no time. With ICE implemented, now they hit it directly where it was lacking.

If you don't have the "flexible" core then it’s a daunting task to implement tools that are more than mere add-ons.

The interesting thing is that ICE is basically a new core architecture which will be the foundation for all kinds of new tools.

As for ICE seeming too complicated for the average 3D artist. That's definitely not the case.
I remember a time when I thought that XSI's 'render tree' seemed complicated just by looking at it, a little fiddling and now I can't live without it. ICE is the same.
ICE will allow 'artists' to be able to build their own tools and utilities which can then be reused and shared instead of trying to script them with complex scripting languages.

I would like to congratulate the whole Softimage team for this.

Like Thiago said "I hope you all can try it when they get the trial version"
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  07 July 2008
Having been using most of the major 3d packages for 4 years myself, I must say that I was very impressed by the ICE release and its features - nothing new in terms of functionality, but the fact that XSI developers cared about user interface design and accessibility just made my day.

'Course, being a primary Maya user, I get to drool, but I've only recently picked up XSI a couple of months ago and are planning on using both, whichever works for the shot.

Thumbs up for the new release, and I can't wait for the new Maya 2009. =). 2008 was great, would have been better if MR was implemented more proper.

Also, I do not understand why people say Maya's poly modelling tools suck. It doesn't suck anymore. Try out the 2008 and you'll find that, aside from the Smooth polygons to render, it's got it all. The UV tools in maya still remains superior to XSI for it's Unfold and Relax tools. (Though XSI's got color borders, which I really like.)

So, yeah, to each his own, I guess. I'm using both anyways. =P
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  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by SpaXe: Also, I do not understand why people say Maya's poly modeling tools suck. It doesn't suck anymore. Try out the 2008 and you'll find that, aside from the Smooth polygons to render, it's got it all. The UV tools in maya still remains superior to XSI for it's Unfold and Relax tools. (Though XSI's got color borders, which I really like.)


It is not that Mayas poly tools suck it is that they often give unpredictable results. Again I must point to the Boolean the Boolean one of the oldest and most basic of all modeling tools and yet it has NEVER worked worth crap in Maya. this has gone on for just over a decade. take somewhat complex but clean and properly models object like a head or something and interpenetrate it with a cube or a sphere or something and then do a Boolean>difference I would be willing to bet money that both object disappear. That is just plain un-acceptable that after 10 years you can't make a damn boolean work.

As for UV tool yeah I have enjoyed using maya UV tools over the years. But again this is an area that you are required to either use 3rd party tools or scripts to do many things. there is no pelt or spline mapping in maya. 3ds max has both built in. and cost half of the price. alot of times this stuff is written as a project by someone on the internet and it is never updated from version to version. like the pelt tools for maya for instance.

I have been able to load addons from older versions of XSI into XSI 6.5 demo and they work just fine. Try that with maya.
 
  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by calmasacow: It is not that Mayas poly tools suck it is that they often give unpredictable results. Again I must point to the Boolean the Boolean one of the oldest and most basic of all modeling tools and yet it has NEVER worked worth crap in Maya.

just make sure the model is a closed volume, a watertight volume with no holes whatsoever.
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  07 July 2008
PLEASE AUTODESK, MAKE MAYA WORK WITHOUT GLITCHES AND TALK WITH NVIDIA TO SUPPORT GEFORCES, not all maya users can buy Quadro´s

Sorry to say this in Caps, but i needed to.
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  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by Buexe: I am not forgetting about the ability to share stuff, it was not part of the point I was trying to make. To me ( read me and not necessarily you ) calling this system artist friendly is relative, for the reasons I have mentioned. It doesn`t take a phd to write an expression and sharing stuff isn`t new either.


It's is artist friendly because lots of those high-level compounds come with XSI.
And you can combine them, pretty much how they did in this video

This is basically a mesh-on-mesh with a splash on collision compound.
No need to visit the raytrace node if you don't need to.
compounds can be combined with compounds inside of compounds.
No talking about math here, talking about building effects.

On the other hand, you are able to go down to the level of pure data access and all the math that it involves to create the effect.
It's goods for both worlds, TD's and Artists and its gonna just get better with people sharing in the community.
 
  07 July 2008
Hello Everyone,

I would just like to share my opinion with those who were complaining about the need to write expressions in effects animation.
First off, I don't agree with using the term artist as an excuse to not need to learn basic expressions. If you have ever taken foundation painting courses, you would realize that a painter has plenty of "non Artist friendly" topics to cover. Pigments,different mediums, basic chemistry are just a few of those topics. I am an artist, and I come from a fine arts background. I knew when getting in to CG, that I would face technical challenges... I think most of us have. I think that learning expressions has definitely given me the freedom to think outside of the box, and to bend the rules. Now with that said, Maya has plenty of room to improve the level of control that an artist can achieve with less scripting. But even in a package like Houdini, which offers way more control using it's node based workflow; still requires lots of expression writing. You also need to understand the different types of data flowing between your nodes. You don't need to learn how to write your own particle systems, or rigid body solvers, but arm yourself with some tools that will make your work more unique.

~Ilan
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  07 July 2008
Originally Posted by tc: It's is artist friendly because lots of those high-level compounds come with XSI.
And you can combine them, pretty much how they did in this video

This is basically a mesh-on-mesh with a splash on collision compound.
No need to visit the raytrace node if you don't need to.
compounds can be combined with compounds inside of compounds.
No talking about math here, talking about building effects.

On the other hand, you are able to go down to the level of pure data access and all the math that it involves to create the effect.
It's goods for both worlds, TD's and Artists and its gonna just get better with people sharing in the community.


Man, I really think this looks nice and all but this whole board seems really hyped about this and it`s all good that the XSI folks get this great tool, that will hopefully prosper and make all users happy. But so far there are a bunch of videos that have limited complexity, like those marketing vids happen to be. Now, when I watch this bulge demo at the end one can see that to create this effect a whole bunch of nodes are connected together. From this info it seems to me (seems because I have not worked with this myself) as if there needs to be a good foundation of knowledge of the various nodes, their functionaliy and the data types they in and output. So this artist-friendliness seems to me limited, you don`t need to code okay and maybe you are lucky to have a ready-made you can use. And how can this 60 fps be a proof that this system is fast. There are just a few polys visible and with that polycount I can do a lot of cloth/dynamics tricks in interactive playback. But I better shutup before I get called a troll-complainer

Originally Posted by tc: No talking about math here, talking about building effects.

That is why a good amount of those Ice nodes have intuitive names and functions like QuaternionToEuler, right ? LOL
No talking about marketing mumbo jumbo, talking about production reality
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