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  02 February 2005

I was using your JWPolyTools that you released before the toolbox and I have discovered a major bug. It seems that when using your script, attempting to File->Open or unload a reference, in any file which has had your script used on it, will cause a system hang and BSOD. This may be related to MJPolyTools' annoying habit of leaving hundreds of garbage nodes in your scene which must be cleaned up manually... In one file, I went through and cleaned all these garbage nodes and it still crashed whenever I tried to unload the file. What I ended up having to do what export all the geometry and reassemble it in a new file. It seems your script left some sort of node(s) in the scene which caused Maya to hang, but I was unable to find what it was, and was unable to get rid of it without rebuilding the scene. A OptimizeScene didn't help either.

The way I have come to the conclusion that it was your script that caused this problem is that on all scenes I worked on before I downloaded your script, I never had the problem. Then I had one scene in which I used it extensively and this problem creeped up. I thought at first it was due to Maya's wrap deformers and went through having to manually delete all sorts of stuff and trying to figure out the problem. I couldn't figure out the problem until I started working on a second character using your script and found that as soon as I started using it, it caused system hangs on file unload. I believe that Maya is creating a duplicate set of nodes whenever you delete history after using your script, and it may be that this happens only after Maya starts building up this network of garbage.

I haven't tried the ToolBox to see if this is still a bug or if it has been fixed. I am under a large timecrunch on the project I'm working on so I have no time to fiddle with anything new, but I intend to contribute to the ToolBox after I'm done with this film. However, I think you should be aware of this bug I found and see if there is any other reports of it or if you might determine what is causing it. I haven't seen anyone else with this particular problem, but I have definitely nailed it down to your script, though it may be some combination of scripts that culiminates in this fatal error when your script is added to the mix.

Best Regards,

  02 February 2005
greaaaat Ideas Mr.HawK!! :-)
please join this developers!!

btw: I love your twaek tool
  02 February 2005
That seems like a quite serious bug if really is something with my script, and if you have checked it as you described it, it really looks like it. Even though noone else has had the same errors, so maybe it could be you combination as you suggested.
my script is in no way dependent on MJPolyTools.. that was APES who used MJ's tools in his own, and furthermore, the only nodes my script creates is polySplit which is done through maya's own polySplit command so I can't see why there should be problems with that.
You should take a look at OMToolbox when you get some time to spare though and see if the same errors occur. There has been some adjusments and a bit of bugfixing so it could be that we occasianlly fixed it.
If we incounter more error reports on this specific bug I will try to look deeper in to it, but right now it seems as it only occur on your machine.

I really hope that we get this settled soon!

- - OMToolbox - PAIE -
  02 February 2005
About those garbage nodes in MJpolytools, I know OMToolbox does clean everything when u delete history, it was one of the first things I've checked.
varomix DaGreit
M I X S t u d i o
cmiVFX Houdini Hip Tricks Volume One and Two
  02 February 2005
It does create one expression node though.. but compared to the one-for-each-slider in MJ's that shouldn't count as garbage
So as Varomix said.. delete history, and if you have used loopSplit, delete the expression node too, and you'll be clean again.
- - OMToolbox - PAIE -
  02 February 2005
I'm going to go ahead and give OMToolBox a try in the next few days as I do a bit more modeling. I reformatted my computer yesterday so I'll be starting fresh on scripts and such and I'll see how it goes. My computer was having hardcore BSOD's previously (I hope the reformat fixes it and it's not a hardware issue). Anyhow, I would think that could contribute to the problems I was having except that the files that crashed my machine also crashed my animator's machine. It could however have been due to some deterioration of my install combining with your script to screw up scenes. I will play around and hopefully that was it, especially since no one else had the problem I had. I would definitely like to use the nice features I only got in your script like the slider tool and such.

  02 February 2005
I have added MJ's procedures for the 'Split around selection' , 'select outline' and connect vertices to the toolbox, but as they are still copies of the ones in MJ's, the issues are the same.
I will try to incorporate the tools a bit better as I get the time (like addint the slider tool to 'split around selection'), while trying to fix the bugsand flaws they might contain.

This version are currently only available from the CVS tree though, but I would say that it works quite good anyhow, though I havn't had time for too much testing.

The newest version is, as I speak, v1.11, but I have just updated the CVS, so It may take a while before it appears on the web-CVS site. Using you own CVS client to anonymiously logon will assure you the absolute latest version.

Hope it'll get usefull.

Looking forward to hear your conclusion on the bug.
- - OMToolbox - PAIE -

Last edited by JakobWelner : 02 February 2005 at 08:22 PM.
  02 February 2005
I just went to the sourceforge site to grab the current version, and it tells me that the latest version is 0.0 (added feb 11th), not the 1.11 verision you mentioned.

Is there someplace else I should be grabbing it from?

BTW, I think what you are doing for the maya community is wonderful. Thanks so much!
  02 February 2005
You need to browse the CVS tree. Posted how-to earlier but here we go again and I'll place it on the first post as well Just have in mind that this is bleeding edge and may be unstable.. though v.1.11 should be usable.

The bleeding edge version can from now on be downloaded from:
Click the OMToolbox.mel link and download the latest version, but as it is bleeding edge, it may be unstable, so this whould only be for the impatient ones or the beta testers.

And thanks for the kind words
- - OMToolbox - PAIE -
  02 February 2005
As for the bug Jakob, it seems it may have been a problem caused by a culmination of events with my windows install being whacked out and your script topping it off to caused that error. I don't really know why that's possible, but hey, Windows is whacky. Anyhow, I've been working with OMToolBox quite a bit now and I've been periodically testing to make sure that crash bug hasn't crept up again and it hasn't so far. So... chalk that one off your list it seems.

OMToolBox is quite nice, btw, the move-along-normal function for loopsplitting works much nicer now than the version of JWTools I had which didn't seem to function very coherantly. I do occasionally have the sufrace TOTALLY wig out on me if I use the move-along-normal function though, in which case it sends off all the new vertices to infinity (or so it seems). However, this is solvable simply by undoing to the point before the loopSplit happened and redoing it. I have yet to have it happen where I can't undo, re-loopSplit, and then move-along-normal and it's fine. So I dunno why it chooses on occasion to go crazy but I figured I'd mention it. It's not a big deal though.

It does seem, however, that OMToolBox still leaves a lot of nodes in one's scene, like I understand MJPolyTools did. Here's the rundown on what I have been having and you can determine whether it's your script or Maya, as I haven't tested it thoroughly enough... - after using OMToolBox on an object to model, select, etc, if one then goes to Edit->Delete by Type->Delete History, it seems that Maya deletes all the nodes on the primary object, but creates a COPY of the original mesh that can only be viewed in the hypergraph and keeps all the history nodes on your object. If you do this multiple times, model a bit, delete history, then repeat, you end up getting a bunch of these non-existent geometry objects in the hypgraph with what can amount to hundreds of nodes attached. (and I believe it's all OMToolBox nodes, such as EdgeRingSplit, also some "polyTweak"s, which I don't know what that node is associated with). You can go through and delete all these objects in the hypergraph, but this involves going through every single object in one's scene and selecting the Show Input and Output Connections button, then selecting all the culprit nodes and deleting it. For scenes with lots of objects, this can be pretty time consuming, but one needs to do it because it can more than double a scene size! On one character before I realized this was happening and started deleting the ghost nodes in the process of modeling, I had more than 10 megabytes of these ghost nodes, and my char file went from 17 megs to 6.5 megs after deleting them all!

Anyhow, like I said, I'm not sure this only happens after using OMToolBox, though I am led to believe it is. I'm not sure though, so let me know your thoughts and I'll contribute any more info I can.

[edit] I just read your above post about 1.11 and not 0.0... this node problem may be something from earlier versions... I am using 0.0, as I was under the impression that was just what the latest version was called and you weren't versioning up yet. I'll give it a try and let ya know how it works out. I'll be leaving for a week this evening though so I may not be able to post results until next Sunday.

[edit2] Hmmm, I'd rather not use 1.11 yet if it could be unstable, since at this point in my project, I don't have time to wrestle with problems, where can I find 1.10? On the sourceForge site I can only find 0.0 and 1.11.

Last edited by WhiteRabbitObj : 02 February 2005 at 05:44 PM.
  02 February 2005
here's one sugestion
instead of creating a menu or a shelf it would be much better to make a marking menu with it's commands. (actually i've already made one )
  02 February 2005
Nice to hear that the problem wasn't the tool.. though it still concerns me that it can appear.

The ghost-nodes you talk about..Can't say I've met the problem, but neither have I checked. It most certainly can be fixed one way or the other, but it sounds weird that i appear, as all use of nodes in my script uses their standard commands and attributes.
It might be that I apply the nodes to the object node instead of the shape or vice versa. Can't remember what It does but I have tried to figure the difference with the two, though without any luck, so it's prolly occasionally whether it's object or shape nodes.

Concerning the CVS versions, what I mean is that the latest version on the CVS may contain errors as it is the bleeding edge version, but I think that CVS v1.11 is quite stable and without using the new tools (split around selection, select outline and connect vertices) it is certainly as least as stable as any other of the versions.
I have to clearify that the versioning on the CVS and on released are two different systems.
CVS versioning increases by 0.01 every time one updates the file, and the release versions on increases as we release something new and almost stable.
The 0.0.0 release is btw. a complete copy of JWToolbox 0.71.

Good idea
I have though of a way for the user to switch between dropdown box, shelf and no GUI, and a marking menu would perfectly fit in as a fourth alternative.
- - OMToolbox - PAIE -

Last edited by JakobWelner : 02 February 2005 at 09:54 PM.
  02 February 2005
My uneducated guess on the nodes thing, Jakob, may have to do with Maya not knowing what to do with your nodes when it deletes history. Perhaps it says "this isn't a native node to me! Maybe I'll just keep it over here for now and delete the rest of my native stuff". I don't know if that's true or not but it's what had occurred to me.

I'll upgrade to 1.11 and give it a whirl.

  02 February 2005
Hehe. If maya says something like that, it should output it for all os us to know it's thoughts. Anyway, the nodes OMTB creates ARE native nodes and are created in the exact same way as they would be, was it from Mayas own GUI.
I will look into this bug as I get the time.. posting it as a bug report on sourceforge for now.

I should likewise encourage all of you to post bug reports as you find some on the sourceforge project page, and please explain and test as consistent as WhiteRabbit before posting.

Varomix has already added the bug. Needs to be taken care of soon!
- - OMToolbox - PAIE -

Last edited by JakobWelner : 02 February 2005 at 09:19 PM.
  02 February 2005
dig the slides. thanks.
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