Maya2014 whatWorks/whatNot

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Old 04 April 2013   #46
Originally Posted by sentry66: What you're supposed to have a gamma node after every single texture so when you mix them, they mix linearly correct.

In my case (look at my avatar icon), I don't feel like adding a billion gamma nodes and retweaking all my existing shaders. So what I do is not technically 100% correct in that I just have all my complex procedurals connect to each other doing their thing and then at the last second before the shader I have a gamma correct node set to .454545. I figure the mixing doesn't need to be linear if you get the look you're after anyway.

If procedurals started offering gamma correction, I'd start using it for all my future shaders.

Just curious: which procedural shaders are you using. Because technically everything procedural is linear. The reason why textures need to be de-gamma'd is because they are photos and were captured - or were authored in a paint program in gamma 2.2 - with a gamma curve that needs to be removed to put these into linear space.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #47
Originally Posted by blade33ru: i turn on color management then i make defaut input profile linear sRGB and output profile to sRGB. i was using a script called jjj_gamma tools to auto add the gamma nodes and is till use it sometimes but it makes it impossible to see your textures in the viewport which is annoying. so when im using a file texture i turn on color profile on the texture itself and select sRGB and i seem to get the same result as the gamma node...but it only works for file textures...is if im making a reflective checkered kitchen floor i revert to the gamma node.

i went down the LWF path 2 years ago and it has totally made everything look better. you dont want to skip it. i use renderman studio and the process is pretty similar there too


Thanks for the info, figuring out the correct way to use LWF feels a bit like a dark art sometimes (no pun intended). I'm curious why you export as sRGB though, if working with a compositor app (I use AE here as Composite seems to hate my machines and crashes if I look at it funny) should you be exporting as linear too?
I've tried just using the jjj gamma script with Enable Color Management switched off but the results in AE seemed washed out. I'm exporting as Tiff 32 bit rather than EXR as when I tried EXR with passes setup I couldn't seem to separate them again in AE properly if that's a factor.

Sorry, not looking for someone to hold my hand with this stuff but if anyone knows of a good tutorial that covers rendering in Mental Ray from Maya in LWF and importing to AE or similar I'd be very keen to check it out as I've searched and just seem to find a bunch of conflicting info that doesn't really help me figure this out.

Originally Posted by lucericr: Because technically everything procedural is linear.

Does that include color swatches inside Maya now too? One of the things I read on my searches is that they still need gamma nodes (unless they are pure black or white), but again I'm not sure how current or accurate that info is now in Maya 2014.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 04 April 2013   #48
Originally Posted by lucericr: Just curious: which procedural shaders are you using. Because technically everything procedural is linear. The reason why textures need to be de-gamma'd is because they are photos and were captured - or were authored in a paint program in gamma 2.2 - with a gamma curve that needs to be removed to put these into linear space.


They do mix within themselves linearly, but the colors you choose for the procedurals isn't done in linear space and would need a gamma correct node for every single color input for them since you're choosing colors based in sRGB space.

Since single colors are so easy to adjust with sliders, I've never bothered creating gamma nodes for every single procedural input. Instead I'll just adjust the sliders until it looks right. You can't do that with a bitmap that has millions of colored pixels, so bitmaps absolutely need to have gamma correction.

I'm technically doing it wrong in that if a procedural is mixing 2 non-gamma corrected colors, the mixing zone within the procedural will be wrong since it's mixing the incorrect colors. In this case I gamma correct the procudural's result right before the shader which accounts for the overall gamma correction going to the shader, but not within the procedural itself.

What I should be doing is having gamma corrected color swatches plugging into procedurals and the result plug straight into the shader. This would produce a correct mixing/blending of the colors within the procedural.

For me, since the nature of working with procedurals is to create an artistically generated look, I'm not losing sleep over the issue if I'm able to dial in the procedurals the way I want or remap their colors. I just don't want a million gamma nodes everywhere - seriously it would be a lot and I really hate having to go outside of the node I'm dialing in to change the color of one of its colors. I do enough of that already.

Procedurals need to have a gamma correction option just like file textures so that it essentially gamma corrects each color input. Why has autodesk ignored this? This is a major oversight.

I use pretty much all the 2d and 3d procedurals with the rarest being the wood texture. The ones I probably use the most are volume noise and ramps in conjunction with utility nodes.

Last edited by sentry66 : 04 April 2013 at 09:32 PM.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #49
yeah im only using sRGB for visualization...otherwise id go linear and tweak in fusion.....although to be 'completely' honest i try and eliminate as much compositing as possible on small jobs and export to sRGB . I often dont have time to be screwing around with multiple passes of 32 bit files ...so exporting sRGB you get the lighting benefits and then you move on to compositing 90s style. if i find banding in glows or blurs i often will convert the sequence to 32 bit for that section then back again ...or whatever

it would be nice to go 32 bit all the way but its a big slow down in the chrome logo pipeline
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Old 04 April 2013   #50
Thanks again, that makes sense. Appreciate the info.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 04 April 2013   #51
Just to follow up and say thanks again for the info here guys. I've successfully managed to convert my render scene to LWF and get the passes into After Effects and work with linear there too.

In case it helps anyone else, what I did was enable the 'Enable Color Management' render option and set it to sRGB in, linear out. That took care of all of the texture maps and I then used a script called 'gammaColorSwatch' to fix all of the materials that just had regular colors driving them. (the script plugs gamma nodes into the color inputs with a value of .4545)

The only bummer with this now is that there doesn't seem to be a way to get this to display correctly in the viewport while working.
If I switch to Viewport 2.0 and enable the Gamma Correct option and set it to 2.2, then the materials driven by color swatches (plus gamma nodes) display correctly so the colors look correct but any texture driven materials are too bright. If I leave the VP2.0 gamma at the default then the textures look right but the color swatch-driven materials are too dark because of the gamma nodes.
Not really great for lighting so I wrote a little script that finds all gamma nodes in the scene and toggles their settings from .4545 to 1 so that I can effectively disable them while setting up lights and then enable them when rendering. Not the best workflow, but it works I guess.
Here's the script in case it's useful for someone else.

   // toggle gamma nodes - a script to switch the existing gamma nodes in the scene between .4545 and 1 for display purposes only
   global proc bh_toggleGammaNodes()
   {
   string $allGammaNodes[]=`ls -type gammaCorrect`;
   
   float $currentVal=getAttr ($allGammaNodes[0]+".gammaX");
   
   if ($currentVal==1)
   {
   	 for ($each in $allGammaNodes)
   	{
   	setAttr ($each+".gammaX") .4545;	
   	setAttr ($each+".gammaY") .4545;
   	setAttr ($each+".gammaZ") .4545;
   	}
   }
   else 
   {
   	for ($each in $allGammaNodes)
   	{
   	setAttr ($each+".gammaX") 1;	
   	setAttr ($each+".gammaY") 1;
   	setAttr ($each+".gammaZ") 1;
   	}  
   }
   }
   

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 04 April 2013 at 08:15 PM.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #52
Well.. back to Maya 2014 bugs..

F-Check seems to be completely broken here if I playblast any animation scene with audio active, F-Check opens and crashes every time. If I switch off the audio it doesn't crash. The same scenes work fine in 2013.5. Working with 16bit mono 44.1 Wavs here, so nothing unusual in terms of audio files.

The Move/Rotate tools seem to have issues selecting curves in the viewport now? I find myself clicking on a characters controller (nurbs curves) several times to select it without success. If I click-drag instead it does work but not just clicking on it, again this works fine in 2013.5 and older on the same machine. It's as if the selection radius has shrunk or something like that? I can't find any option to tweak that though?

Meh.. I was looking forward to animating in 2014 and using the grease pencil tool but with basic issues like this it looks like I'm better off sticking to 2013.5. Disappointing.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 04 April 2013   #53
As always I'll wait for the sp1 since as always first new version of maya looks more like a beta..sad because I like the new tools.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #54
Originally Posted by Horganovski: Well.. back to Maya 2014 bugs..

F-Check seems to be completely broken here if I playblast any animation scene with audio active, F-Check opens and crashes every time. If I switch off the audio it doesn't crash. The same scenes work fine in 2013.5. Working with 16bit mono 44.1 Wavs here, so nothing unusual in terms of audio files.


Hmmmm that seems odd it's crashing over audio. It's just a standard wav file? I'll check with our QA on this one.

Originally Posted by Horganovski: The Move/Rotate tools seem to have issues selecting curves in the viewport now? I find myself clicking on a characters controller (nurbs curves) several times to select it without success. If I click-drag instead it does work but not just clicking on it, again this works fine in 2013.5 and older on the same machine. It's as if the selection radius has shrunk or something like that? I can't find any option to tweak that though?


Seems strange as I'm not aware of any changes done to these tools as far as selection goes. Just tried out a rig of mine with some nurbs controls and am able to get a selection without having to marquee. Anything blocking/stacked on the objects? Camera clipping planes maybe? You can email me a scene if you want and I'll take a look at it.
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Old 04 April 2013   #55
Thanks, I've reported the Fcheck one as a bug as it seems pretty simple to reproduce (happens on two different machines here 100% of the time, on several different scenes that work fine in older versions). All are using standard mono Wav files, 16 bit, some 44.1khz, some 48.

Regarding the selection one, I've just updated my GFX drivers in case that's an issue. I've also noticed in the past that attaching objects to deforming meshes using the djrivet script (it uses hair follicles) seemed to not play nicely with viewport 2.0 and I had one of those in the scene so I've removed it and swapped for a point on poly constraint instead. I'll do some more testing today to see if that's made any difference. I'll double check the camera clipping planes too. I found the radius setting for selection in the prefs too and brought it up a little. Never needed to do that before though.

Cheers,
Brian

Last edited by Horganovski : 04 April 2013 at 03:54 PM.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #56
Originally Posted by lucericr: which procedural shaders are you using. Because technically everything procedural is linear.

Mind if I chime in?
I used a checker, with greenish color instead of white. It wasn't linear.
There was another instance, when I used a ramp with one swatch and combine it using a multiplyDivide with a greyscale image - I had to add a gamma node to the ramp but not to the image.
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Old 04 April 2013   #57
Originally Posted by thematt: As always I'll wait for the sp1 since as always first new version of maya looks more like a beta..sad because I like the new tools.


In fairness to the developers and beta testers, Cinema 4D is exactly the same in this regard, the first point update after a new version usually has a ton of stuff fixed that the testers didn't find. I guess with DCC apps being so complex this is inevitable to some extent, there's no way testers can try every possible combination before release.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 05 May 2013   #58
Still not fixed:
- When container content gets a bit more complex ( maybe even when its still plain simple ),
the location of the nodes often looks like after being scattered around, even though it was initially nicely placed.
- Removing nodes sometimes removes another node from the same container but not the selected ( by holding shift-alt and moving the node outside the container ).
- Removing a node often fails ( by holding shift-alt and moving the node outside the container ).
etcetcetc...
It looks to me that the hyperLayout node is responsible for all these failings.
Its also impossible for me the place a new node in a container at the location where I want it to be (using mel) by adjusting the relevant attributes in the corresponding hyperLayout node.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #59
It's looking like mental ray contours on OS X don't render.
 
Old 05 May 2013   #60
Just to follow up, it seems that my selection issues have been resolved with new GFX drivers.

Fcheck is still dead in the water though when it comes to audio which is a PITA when animating lipsync (I know I can playblast to AVI or QT but neither of those allow scrubbing with audio). Really hope that can be resolved soon.

I'm also finding Grease Pencil a bit funky with multiple views active. I usually have one view (the regular persp cam) on my main monitor and a 2nd 'ShotCam' on my other display which is the locked down camera that I render. Somehow I broke grease pencil in the persp view in my animation scene, it only shows up in the shot cam. I did of course create a new drawing frame for that persp camera and I see the nodes being created for it in the outliner but it's invisible (I have gone through the filter settings for the view and nothing is hidden. The weird thing is if I create a new empty scene I can't reproduce this, it's just in this one scene.

Cheers,
Brian
 
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