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Old 10-09-2012, 07:26 AM   #1
tristratos
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AUTODESK - Maya - MISLEADING INFORMATION!

After great frustration regarding the bullet's "Create Ragdoll from skeleton" feature that WAS SAID to be included even under Maya 2012 Subscription pack and even demoed frorm Autodesk itself as a preview video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3uxvqzUy3Q (aroung 0:50)

IT JUST NEVER WORKED!
NOT under Maya 2012 SP2, NOT under Maya 2013, NOT even under Maya 2013.5

(the skeletons stay intact and they don't get driven by ragdoll's sphere elements - http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...agdoll+skeleton)

As a subscription customer, I even added a ticket to be notified of the issue and the only answer I got is that they ___MIGHT___ fix it in an upcoming release IF THEY FIND IT IMPORTANT ENOUGH.

Keep in mind that this feature is both listed in their bullet's documents that came with maya (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servle...linkID=10809894) and the aforementioned official video as a demoed feature that is produced FROM AUTODESK ITSELF!

If that is not MISLEADING information, I really wonder what is!
I just don't even mention the word support, which is of no meaning...Subscription customer ? not anymore... just in case you still thinking of it....

Last edited by tristratos : 10-09-2012 at 07:29 AM.
 
Old 10-09-2012, 08:19 AM   #2
BoostAbuse
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John Appleseed
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Last I checked it was working fine for me but you have to tell the bullet ragdoll objects to operate in Kinematic mode which is not the default. Once that is set the ragdoll effect should simulate exactly the way you expect.

See the attached image which is from my Maya 2013 install. Each capsule needs to be set as a Kinematic Rigid Body to operate as a ragdoll effect on the skeleton.

Hope that helps.

-s

**edit** odd.. it would appear that bullet isn't generating the constraints between the capsules and the bones to drive the simulation. Have to manually constrain the capsules to the bones themselves and then it seems to drive things fine. Let me dive in and see what's going on here.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bulletAE.jpg (92.2 KB, 91 views)
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Last edited by BoostAbuse : 10-09-2012 at 08:51 AM.
 
Old 10-09-2012, 09:03 AM   #3
tristratos
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Dear Shawn,

Excuse me but this is not the case in either 2012/ 2013 or 2013.5 that I tried!

As stated in my old cgtalk post in a blank scene if you execute the following simpliest scene

polyCylinder -r 1 -h 2 -sx 20 -sy 1 -sz 1 -ax 0 1 0 -rcp 0 -cuv 3 -ch 1;
select -d pCylinder1 ;
select -r pCylinder1 ;
select -addFirst polyCylinder1 ;
setAttr "polyCylinder1.subdivisionsHeight" 15.1;
setAttr "polyCylinder1.height" 15.1;
setToolTo jointContext;
select -d polyCylinder1 pCylinder1 ;
select -d;
joint -p 0 7.208068 -0.350318 ;
joint -p 0 2.876858 0.392781 ;
joint -e -zso -oj xyz -sao yup joint1;
joint -p 0 -2.600849 -0.159236 ;
joint -e -zso -oj xyz -sao yup joint2;
joint -p 0 -7.165605 0.329087 ;
joint -e -zso -oj xyz -sao yup joint3;
select -r pCylinder1 joint1 ;
python "Ragdoll.CreateRagdoll().executeCommandCB()";

When you hit play (default state to Static body), the only thing you will get is capsules falling and skeleton not following!

Even if I set in each one of the bullet's rigid bodies (in this examples bulletRigidBodyShape1, bulletRigidBodyShape2, bulletRigidBodyShape3) to either Dynamic OR Kinematic -as you've stated- this doesn't work as expected or viewed on the promotional video!
Meaning, skeletons, do not follow gravity on their own, driving the connected skeletons!!
When set to Kinematic -as you've stated- the sheleton doesn't move at all as if physics do not affect it at all!!

From your profile, I noticed that you seem to be an official Autodesk Maya Designer, could you please answer to me directly on this ?

I hope I am wrong and you may describe a specific workflow that is not documented to get this feature working (as promised from autodesk's promotional material)!
Please be specific and if possible provide me with a working example -if any- to test it out!

As I am really desperate with this feature (I have tried and tested anything I could possibly think of), I really need to know if there is ANY solution or this is a really missing product feature !??!

Last edited by tristratos : 10-09-2012 at 09:26 AM.
 
Old 10-09-2012, 09:15 AM   #4
tristratos
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Dear Shawn,

I even tried to contraint the capsules manually and still I get NO solution so far!!

Is there a bug fix to this ?
May I update any missing files to get that feature working as stated, without waiting for a full update !?!?
It really missed 3 working updates and still not working!

How long should I wait for a feature that I was supposed to have already bought ???
Even subscription pack ticket officer didn't help me at all!!!

I really hope for your help on this and provide me -and the community as well as your own clients- with a working solution!!

Last edited by tristratos : 10-09-2012 at 09:28 AM.
 
Old 10-09-2012, 09:46 AM   #5
BoostAbuse
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Can you give this scene a try and let me know if the capsules are responding properly for you? It's just a simple test where the first capsule is made a kinematic object and then I've animated the RigidBody group node to move the capsules and drive the joints which are orient constrained to the skeleton.

Let me know if you see the same result, if not I'll have to dive in a bit more and see just what's going on. What effect are you looking to get out of this? Have the joints coil up on the ground or driven with secondary animation like in the video?

-s
Attached Files
File Type: zip bulletTest.mb.zip (10.0 KB, 17 views)
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:07 AM   #6
tristratos
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Dear Shawn,

All I get is the attached playblast.
OK the cylinder isn't skinned but that is not the case.
As you've stated, you only set the first capsule to kinematic and animated the group so that everything moves.

Though my issue isn't this one.
As stated in the video from autodesk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3uxvqzUy3Q (aroung 0:50)

You may see that the demonstrator, selects the skeleton, adds ragdoll_to_skeleton feature and according to the general SKELETON/OBJECT movement (not ragdoll's), capsules following, by driving simultaneously the according skeletons without offsetting, and as such it shows that they may collide with anything in the scene.

Is that possible or broken 3 releases now ?
Maybe fixed / replicated somehow - even with some mel updates that you may provide ?
Attached Files
File Type: zip playblast_2013_2.zip (235.2 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by tristratos : 10-09-2012 at 10:13 AM.
 
Old 10-09-2012, 10:13 AM   #7
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I'd have to check with the guy who made that video and see if that shelf button of his is a custom script that sets things up. As far as I can tell bullet does not generate constraints right now to drive the skeleton objects themselves and only generates the capsules.

I've sent an email to some of our development staff to see what is up - if I hear anything back today I'll update this thread.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:18 AM   #8
tristratos
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Dear Shawn,

As checked, bullet seems to create constraint nodes in the scene (constraint_joint*) but they doesn't seem to work at all (checked it on all three Maya versions 2012 SP2, 2013 and 2013.5)

I really hope you get some kind of feedback on this and hopefully provide us with a working solution!

PLEASE feel free to update this thread ANYTIME soon if not possible today!
We really need _at_least_ a workaround!!

Best Regards,
Tri
 
Old 10-09-2012, 10:27 AM   #9
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I've never even touched Bullet yet, but am very interested in this as well.

Cheers!
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
"As a subscription customer, I even added a ticket to be notified of the issue and the only answer I got is that they ___MIGHT___ fix it in an upcoming release IF THEY FIND IT IMPORTANT ENOUGH."


That's just crazy... what kind of kinder-egg of software are we dealing with really?? I wish autodesk took real responsibility and fixed all broken stuff. ALL OF IT ! There are bugs that are 5-6 years old and they never get fixed. You learn to live with it but it's rubbish.
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:48 PM   #11
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the problem is that Autodesk didn't write the Bullet plug-in AMD did. This was another one of those one-off subscription attractions that will likely die off as AMD will not support it unless Autodesk takes it on internally. I've complained about these things in the past. I call them the Dirtbag Steve features.

meme goes here:
"GIVES YOU ULTRA-FAST RIGID BODY SOLVER. TAKES IT AWAY NEXT YEAR."

we already have one for DMM.
 
Old 10-10-2012, 06:53 AM   #12
tristratos
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So, Shawn McClelland,

Any feedback on this ?
Any solution ?
Any bug fix ?

Any workaround at least ?
 
Old 10-10-2012, 08:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgbeige
we already have one for DMM.

... and Craft Director Tools ...

But DMM for 2013 is finally available here. No idea when that actually popped up. Although I was bugging all kinds of people for weeks, nobody even bothered to notify me. I just discovered it myself by pure chance and dumb luck.

Looking forward to a solution for this Bullet issue. On paper and if actually functional, it looks very interesting and useful. Like a few other things in Maya ....

Can anybody tell me, why everything in Maya that's broken stays broken, why we are not getting PU's for current and the previous versions, like Max is getting?

Cheers!
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:36 AM   #14
BoostAbuse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristratos
So, Shawn McClelland,

Any feedback on this ?
Any solution ?
Any bug fix ?

Any workaround at least ?


Working on it still.. I'm not in Toronto but overseas now so I'm doing my best to sync with the dev team and figure things out. I've asked for a possible workaround outside of constraining the bones manually so when I hear something I'll update this.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:51 AM   #15
tristratos
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We are waiting for your feedback on this!
 
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