Maya DirectX11 Technology Viewport

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  08 August 2012
To summarize:

Originally Posted by InfernalDarkness: blahblahblah
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  08 August 2012
Impressive straw-men in action here.

This was a thread regarding a Microsoft technology in Windows. Dutch and CGB, you don't use Windows, so why did you come here just to troll your naysaying absurdities other than to announce your self-proclaimed brand-loyalty elitism? You are not even able to approach my points, much less refute them. You'll note that other Mac users aren't whining about it, including one of the people working on the technology.

You're complaining that your purchasing money for Maya is being used to fund developments that don't affect you. I'm calling you out because the development of Maya for Macs and Linux does not affect me, nor the other 75-odd-percent of Maya users. Consider your arguments falsified.
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  08 August 2012
Kees: are you Dutch by any chance? Your name certainly very much is.
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"Even the Christmas vacation will be darkened by New Zealand scripts…"
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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by cgbeige: Shawn - am I misunderstanding this as being a "write your own DX shaders and have them shown in Maya" technology? It's not akin to Nitrous for Maya, is it? Will the DX11 viewport be a mental ray or API-accessible viewport or simply meant for game developers (what I thought).

I'd be pretty pissed off if viewport 2 was being under-developed because it was easier to bring this stuff from Max or Softimage code you already wrote. That would mean Linux and Mac users were subsidizing features they can't use. Autodesk does enough lazy porting already - that's basically why every app gets a viewcube - but I can only see this being excusable if this is game-development oriented, where admittedly (with the exception of Unity) 99% of the development is done on Windows. I can only pay subscription updates for so long and not get half the big-bullet features.


We provide a few example HLSL shaders that have difference DX11 techniques and stuff built into them or you can write your own HLSL shaders to fit your needs. It's essentially the same style we used to have with the CgFX Shader node where you'd assign your CgFX file to it but this is native HLSL and DX11. This isn't tied to Nitrous at all - the DX11 viewport was built using the Viewport 2.0 framework but entirely upon DirectX instead of OpenGL.

Nothing got ported from other apps and if anything the development on the DirectX11 viewport for our games customers also helped us identify some key things to do on the OpenGL side as well. This feature was a decision made to help bolster our DirectX based games customers so they can visualize their shaders and other things within the viewport without having to hack together their own systems or rely on the old HLSL node to draw things in GL.
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  08 August 2012
Just wanted to say that I watched the Autodesk presentation titled 'Virtual Production' from Siggraph yesterday on the Area and came away impressed by the DX11 features that are coming. Worth a look.

For people on OSX/Linux the presenter also mentioned that significant performance improvements were made on the OpenGL side.

-N
 
  08 August 2012
Thanks, Shawn. It's basically what I thought and I'm confident that you guys know there only so much single-platform stuff that can be done before it becomes a problem, so this makes sense. Sorry if I insulted anyone by assuming it was ported from other code.
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by cgbeige: Thanks, Shawn. It's basically what I thought and I'm confident that you guys know there only so much single-platform stuff that can be done before it becomes a problem, so this makes sense. Sorry if I insulted anyone by assuming it was ported from other code.


Yeah, I think you and I Dave, ruffled a few feathers here. You probably put it better than I have with the bolded sentence.

For what it's worth, Shawn and Kees, I understand this is a business decision, and in all likelihood makes good sense.
In my opinion Maya is still the best 3D application out there and I thoroughly enjoy using it. Please don't take the DX11 critiques personal and thank you for all the hard work you all keep putting into Maya.
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"Even the Christmas vacation will be darkened by New Zealand scripts…"
~ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 34
 
  08 August 2012
Especially since I hear View port 2 is being coded by a single coder. if true that's even more hard work.
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by Hamburger: Especially since I hear View port 2 is being coded by a single coder.


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  08 August 2012
With the time its taken thus far for an unfinished component of Maya I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were true. But that's another story, so I'll get back on subject.

It is looking good and am looking forward to the enhancements made with VP2 this next SAP release.
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by DutchDimension: (pandering, backtracking, hypocrisy)


Impressive social mechanism there. Please stick to the topic, which had nothing to do with you or the computers you work with, amazingly enough.

Originally Posted by Hamburger: Especially since I hear View port 2 is being coded by a single coder. if true that's even more hard work.


@Hamburger: Where did you hear this?
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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by cgbeige: Thanks, Shawn. It's basically what I thought and I'm confident that you guys know there only so much single-platform stuff that can be done before it becomes a problem, so this makes sense. Sorry if I insulted anyone by assuming it was ported from other code.


No need to apologize Dave I get where you guys are coming from and how frustrating it can feel to see other platforms get features you can't use. There's lots of really cool things going on in the industry right now so it's hard to please everyone but rest assured we aren't just going to forget about everyone else

Originally Posted by DutchDimension: Yeah, I think you and I Dave, ruffled a few feathers here. You probably put it better than I have with the bolded sentence.

For what it's worth, Shawn and Kees, I understand this is a business decision, and in all likelihood makes good sense.
In my opinion Maya is still the best 3D application out there and I thoroughly enjoy using it. Please don't take the DX11 critiques personal and thank you for all the hard work you all keep putting into Maya.


Heh nothing personal Danny We're just trying to make Maya better for everyone.

Originally Posted by Hamburger: Especially since I hear View port 2 is being coded by a single coder. if true that's even more hard work.


Did you hear this on Fox News by chance?

-s
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  08 August 2012
It's seems like somewhat of a waste of time since all the lighting, post processing and grading is done in the game eninge itself so why bother doing it in Maya? All the good game engines have robust material editors to..

All you really need to check in your 3D app is you uv maps and make sure you have a clean mesh..
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  08 August 2012
It's to give artists more accurate renderings while working. Since so much is done by the shaders (normals, parralax mapping, displacement tesselation, glossiness, etc), it's definitely needed to get a picture of how your character or environment looks. Guerilla rolled their own Maya viewport for Killzone 2 and 3 (gl)
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by Kabab: It's seems like somewhat of a waste of time since all the lighting, post processing and grading is done in the game eninge itself so why bother doing it in Maya? All the good game engines have robust material editors to..

All you really need to check in your 3D app is you uv maps and make sure you have a clean mesh..


You visit Polycount much? Check out the Pimping & Previews section where a lot of artists share their work from projects and stuff... I'd say 90% of that is viewport captures using various runtime shaders in the 3dsmax viewport or using Toolbag by 8 Monkey Labs. While the game engine is ultimately your end target it's a huge cost impact having to shuttle assets back and forth just because you want to visualize your displacement or your tessellation when you can now do so right in the viewport.

Except for the fact that a large majority of studios still animate their cinematics inside of the 3D apps so whatever tools you can give the artists to be as close to target as possible is ultimately a win for their productivity. Then you've got other studios as Dave has pointed out who basically hijack the viewport and pump their engine into Maya so they can visualize exactly what it would look like in the final runtime environment.
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