Maya DirectX11 Technology Viewport

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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by DutchDimension: Anyway, after spending some time with modo 601, I came away being rather disappointed. I found that the GUI hasn't matured very well at all. With the many additions that have occurred since 103, I found it somewhat crammed and rather hodge podge. The vertical tabs and text are probably the most annoying GUI element I have ever encountered.
Another thing I was greatly disappointed by was modo's difficulty with handling heavy assets, or large scenes. It very quickly bogged down.
But the biggest disappointment for me was how incredibly unstable modo 601 is. So many crashes. Crazy, nonsensical crashes. Modo even managed to crash when it was idling in the background, without having anything loaded, or created when it crashed.
I also found the documentation quite dreadful, because of the atrocious lack of spell checking (yes I'm a spelling nazi).
In addition, I really didn't like the Shader Tree. Being used to Maya and it's nodal foundation, it's just too awkward. A bit like trying to condense a Nuke comp script into PhotoShop. Ugh!.
All in all, I came away from modo 601 feeling that, for me and my workflow, it's not even close to being a Maya replacement. Far, far from it. I keep it around for the odd modelling task here and there, but not much else.

Your mileage may vary, as the internet adage goes.

Apologies for the O/T nature of this post. Feel free to skip.

Stability is pretty good now with the latest service packs as good as Maya 2010 which is the last version I used in any anger... The UI i like but i guess that is a personal thing but i agree the large scene handling and shader tree need a lot of work...

Originally Posted by sentry66: That's something almost every software company can learn from. Given how many choices we have when choosing any 3D software, it's rather amazing that if you fall even 2 versions behind, you get thrown back to ground zero with having to pay the full retail price. It's like Autodesk hates its customers and don't want them to stick with using their products.
That is exactly why we switched we looked at upgrading our Maya license and getting another one then compared that cost to Modo also taking into account the upgrade policies and it was a easy decision...

Sorry for the massive derailment!
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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by kees: Being that this thread is about the new DX11 viewport features for Maya, perhaps it is time for you to start a new thread in which you can spill all your frustrations with Autodesk.

That way, I can ignore that thread and just read what constructive criticism people have on the DX11 features.


since you are from autodesk, the first thing you should do or lets say until people cheering more then complaining... you should shut it and start doing what anybody should do at AD:
LISTEN TO THE USERBASE first! everything else is secondary!
and don't conplain back... cause don't have that right if you work for AD

And if you feel offended by this and mistreated cause it is maybe not your fault. Well, sorry. you gotta live with it. Cause this is part of your job until its fixed. So report to the upper hierarchy if you can't change things on your own. And don't complain here.
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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by bjoern: since you are from autodesk, the first thing you should do or lets say until people cheering more then complaining... you should shut it and start doing what anybody should do at AD:
LISTEN TO THE USERBASE first! everything else is secondary!
and don't conplain back... cause there you realy don't have that right if you work for AD

And if you feel offended by this and mistreated cause it is maybe not your fault. Well, sorry. you gotta live with it. Cause this is part of your job until its fixed. So report to the upper hirarchy if you can't change things on your own. And don't complain here.


Not sure your tone is really all that constructive to this discussion. Kees was simply pointing out that this thread has to do with the DirectX11 Preview and was trying to keep it from spiraling out of control into yet another lovely "hate Autodesk" thread which you seem to flock to by the way.

You should probably read the forum rules as far as posts as well, telling another user to shut it isn't exactly the professional type of post that is helpful to these discussions. That said lets try to keep this related to DirectX11 shall we?

-s
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  08 August 2012
My fault to be honest I got carried away sorry....
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  08 August 2012
you are at AD. deal with it. just silently
But I agree... I got very of topic.
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  08 August 2012
ditto houdini ...very impressive....still the new viewpoint looks useful...however, personally I'm looking for non destructive workflows......don't care if it's node based or not.....how can the new viewport solve non obvious problems?
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Last edited by republicavfx : 08 August 2012 at 01:32 AM.
 
  08 August 2012
If this tech could trickle down to the offline renderers (ie somewhat close to real-time representation of VRayMtl, mental ray shaders etc...((which would be up to the render devs to code))), it would have the same logic and workflow as what Kees is implying for game designers but also for everyone else too in other industries. That way the feature would be useful to most of the userbase, not a portion.

As Kabab said, VP 2.0 is in the right direction, but far from practical as it currently is. .

If this new tech could mean less test rendering and getting your scene 70% of the way there through realtime shaders, realtime quadratic lighting, dof, and even exposure, gamma etc...

That would be ideal.

Last edited by Hamburger : 08 August 2012 at 01:37 AM.
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by Hamburger: If this new tech could mean less test rendering and getting your scene 70% of the way there through realtime shaders, realtime quadratic lighting, dof, and even exposure, gamma etc...

That would be ideal.

I used to think this to but progressive ray-tracers are so fast now what is the point of an approximation when you can see a reasonable quality ray-traced version in seconds...
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  08 August 2012
Hamburger – that's exactly what this won't be for. This is strictly game dev technology and I think very few users will actually use this. That's not an insult, it's just very valuable to a small group of users like Ubisoft and EA who make Windows or XBox games but somehow don't also have the resources to write a DirectX viewport plugin.
 
  08 August 2012
Bjoern, kindly check the attitude at the door and keep criticism constructive please. If you have a comment or criticism you apparently have the aptitude to phrase it outside of an insult.

Thank you.

regards,
bentllama [moderator]
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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by cgbeige: Hamburger – that's exactly what this won't be for. This is strictly game dev technology and I think very few users will actually use this. That's not an insult, it's just very valuable to a small group of users like Ubisoft and EA who make Windows or XBox games but somehow don't also have the resources to write a DirectX viewport plugin.


Yes, I frequent Polycount a lot - I'd assume over the years most of them would be after new UV tools and modern modelling tools.

Originally Posted by Kabab: I used to think this to but progressive ray-tracers are so fast now what is the point of an approximation when you can see a reasonable quality ray-traced version in seconds...


Yes, true - very good point - I do use V-Ray RT quite a lot now that it is more stable.

I actually find it more reliable to do basic things like checking shading networks with V-Ray RT than Maya's viewport because most of the time my materials end up black in the viewport and switching to the file node trick via the UV Mapper sometimes doesn't work either with simple blend nodes etc...

What you said before is what I meant:

Originally Posted by Kabab: Do you have HLSL shader writers on staff? cause that is what your going to need to do that kind of thing... What your really after is an improved Viewport 2...


I'm hoping this DX11 realtime game tech will filter down to the existing groundwork done on Viewport 2.0 and not exclusively for realtime shaders.

Anything to make life in 3d land faster and easier!
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by Hamburger: I'm hoping this DX11 realtime game tech will filter down to the existing groundwork done on Viewport 2.0 and not exclusively for realtime shaders.

Anything to make life in 3d land faster and easier!

That is what rubs me the wrong way... They have VP2 which is a WIP but they put a stack of resources into this DX11 viewport probably because some big game customer pressured them into yet...
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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by Kabab: That is what rubs me the wrong way... They have VP2 which is a WIP but they put a stack of resources into this DX11 viewport probably because some big game customer pressured them into yet...


This has been (part of) my complaint from the start. I have no real use for VP2.0 for a lot of the work I do on a daily basis, largely because it's still incomplete after all this time. For example, there still is no native Paint Effects support, Particles are incomplete and as Hamburger mentioned, shader networks more often than not result in black feedback.
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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by Kabab: They have VP2 which is a WIP but they put a stack of resources into this DX11 viewport probably because some big game customer pressured them into yet...


Not pressured. It was highly requested.

In this same thread I get told we need to "shut it and listen to the user base".

So we did. And implemented a DX11 viewport. Which is still VP2 btw and the on an API level Maya features are not implemented in a DX11 dependent way at all.

I think you need to realize that there is a large user base who DOES want this. You may not be part of that group of people. That is fine. They could turn around and say the same about the features you are requesting.

For a true game pipeline, it is not the highest priority to see software rendering shaders in the hardware viewport. They want to see their hardware shaders in the viewport.

So what if all those game developers come into your thread and continue to say that Autodesk should not spend any time developing visualizing software shaders in the hardwar viewport because they have no use for it?

You have to realize that if you are in the software rendering side of things, that this feature is not for you.

You will benefit from it in the future, because this work is not wasted in visualizing software shaders at all, but this feature is for game developers who want access to modern hardware shader capabilities of DX11 in the Maya viewport.
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  08 August 2012
DX11 viewport keeps a few high profile studio's happy so ADSK can use their name in the marketing material and extract subscription revenue..

Improving modelling tools and VP2 = everyone wins including game clients....

That is how is see, but I guess this is futile argument anyway since I have long moved past Maya.....
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