CGTalk > Software > Autodesk 3ds max
Login register
reply share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-11-2010, 07:03 PM   #16
cecofuli
Engineer
 
cecofuli's Avatar
portfolio
Francesco Legrenzi
Modeler / Lighter
Architecture Studio Piva
Milan, Italy
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 847
Sometime, in a heavy scene and some hours, when i right click on the LM to create a new layer, the Outliner UI disappears. I see only the "create e new later" button :( . I need to restart 3ds max and all work fine in the same scene.
Nvidia 9800 GTX - 3ds max in DX node - win XP 64

New IMPORTANT wish in nasty layers. If I have the main layer named A and the nasty layer named 1-2-3-4
I click on the visibility icon on A and all disappear in viewport. Ok, perfect. Now I want unhide only layer 2. I click on the layer visibility icon on nasty layer 1. Nothing happen. In my idea, if I click the visibility for layer 1, this will be un-hide. Right now I need to make ON the visibility for the main layer and hide later 1,3,4, except my layer 2. No very useful this method.

In theonion I can hide-unhide the main layer (A) by right click on a random nasty layer (1-2-3-4), or click on single layer for visibility ON-OFF very easy and fast. This is not possible in the Outliner without loosing a lot of time and mouse click. I will stay with theOnion without this possibility. This option is VERY IMPORTANT in my opinion.

thanks
__________________
Francesco Legrenzi
www.francescolegrenzi.com
VRay - THE COMPLETE GUIDE

Last edited by cecofuli : 04-11-2010 at 07:28 PM.
 
Old 04-11-2010, 07:10 PM   #17
DarkNemos
Know-it-All
 
DarkNemos's Avatar
portfolio
Nemanja Stavric
Lighting and Texture Artist
Looking for work
Belgrade, Serbia
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 393
Send a message via MSN to DarkNemos
Lol i thought that i was the only one having this bug. When you rightclick the outliner dissapears and only the rightclick menu is there. When you create a layer the outliner appears. I had this only twice.
__________________
It is a poor artist who blames his tools for his work.

- Jeremy Birn
 
Old 04-11-2010, 07:32 PM   #18
cecofuli
Engineer
 
cecofuli's Avatar
portfolio
Francesco Legrenzi
Modeler / Lighter
Architecture Studio Piva
Milan, Italy
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 847
About the layer visibility, try to see this video. In the middle on the tutorial you can see what I talk

http://www.cgtraining.com/Videos/ZK...KSM03Tree2.html
__________________
Francesco Legrenzi
www.francescolegrenzi.com
VRay - THE COMPLETE GUIDE
 
Old 04-11-2010, 07:34 PM   #19
Pjanssen
Veteran
portfolio
Pier Janssen
Göteborg, Sweden
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,400
Thanks for your replies guys!
A quick reply for cpt-elektro: Someone at scriptspot reported the issue earlier today too. I'm guessing you've got your 3dsmax installation on a volume different from C ?
Either way, I've fixed the problem, and I'll upload the new installer tonight and let you know.

I'll reply to everyone else in more detail tonight or tomorrow.
 
Old 04-11-2010, 07:35 PM   #20
cpt-elektro
PRO
 
cpt-elektro's Avatar
portfolio
Matthias Danberg
Düsseldorf, Germany
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 105
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjanssen
Thanks for your replies guys!
I'm guessing you've got your 3dsmax installation on a volume different from C ?
.


You are right!

bye e
__________________
website
 
Old 04-11-2010, 10:08 PM   #21
Pjanssen
Veteran
portfolio
Pier Janssen
Göteborg, Sweden
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,400
I've uploaded version 2.0.1, which addresses the following issues:
* Fixed open at startup crash
* Fixed installer issue when having to install across different volumes.
* Fixed crash when dragging node onto container.
* Fixed crash when somehow trying to add an empty selection to a new group.

You can download the new version by going into the options panel and clicking "Check now" if you already have the Outliner 2.0 installed, or by downloading the installer manually

Two of these bugs were reported using the automatic Error Report form, and I must say that I'm really happy to see that working quite effectively.

Last edited by Pjanssen : 04-11-2010 at 10:11 PM.
 
Old 04-12-2010, 06:08 AM   #22
Pjanssen
Veteran
portfolio
Pier Janssen
Göteborg, Sweden
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,400
Ok, to everyone who has updated to 2.0.1, please update again. I made a little change to the error reporting code, and to test that, I added a bit of code that always crashes. I forgot to remove this from the release build though...
 
Old 04-12-2010, 08:15 AM   #23
cecofuli
Engineer
 
cecofuli's Avatar
portfolio
Francesco Legrenzi
Modeler / Lighter
Architecture Studio Piva
Milan, Italy
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 847
Thanks Pjanssen!
Here a short video about The Onion. Hope you found intresting
You can do a lot of operations directly in the UI, with some shortcut key, right mouse button, +ALT, + CTRL etc... very useful, very fast! Hope in a future upgrade for Outliner with this kind of toys
__________________
Francesco Legrenzi
www.francescolegrenzi.com
VRay - THE COMPLETE GUIDE
 
Old 04-12-2010, 09:08 AM   #24
Pjanssen
Veteran
portfolio
Pier Janssen
Göteborg, Sweden
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by yog
BTW - I know the Material Mode is still in beta, but is there any chance future versions might explore dragging objects between different materials ?
You should already be able to do this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
I've had some trouble installing the script on Windows 7, 64 bit. To install it I had to run Max as an administrator and then go to the MAX Script menu and run the .mse from there. So if anyone has problems installing they should try this.
What kind of problems did you encounter exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
I also didn't restart max after installing the script, and while it appeared to be working correctly, when I tried to dock Outliner to the left, it went blank - i.e. the objects and control icons were missing, living the space gray. I had to do an uninstall, restart, install, restart. This might be also related to Windows 7
Hmm that is odd. So even the buttons for switching the listmode, sorting and filtering were gone? And did it ever happen again after reinstalling it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
And finally, I tried something stupid, like linking the target of a light to the light itself. This caused a dependency loop so max didn't complete the linking, but Outliner showed there was in fact a link.
(this happens if I try to link them via Ouliner, via Max it's OK)
Yes this is probably an area I should take a closer look at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
Btw, is there some way to use shortcuts to do quick freezing of layers? Something like Shift+Click on the icon..
There isn't at the moment. A while ago I did a little experiment by adding a little freeze button next to each node, but it made the whole tree look too messy in my opinion.
I guess that a "freeze selected layers" feature could be a good addition to the workflow tools.


Quote:
Originally Posted by metamesh
awesome tool man, really great...
is there any other way to make a donation a part from paypal?
There isn't an easy way, no. I guess that we could do a regular bank transfer, but that would depend on how much you were thinking of donating, because of the extra cost involved. Either way, contact me through email to discuss the details. Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
(*) Possibility to expand the layer manager to see the layers and nasty layers. But not the object in the layers. Now it's impossible automatically, only manually and with a lot of layers it's odd. This is because I want to see all layers in the scene in "one click solution".
Yeah the "auto expand all layers" feature could maybe be extended a little.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
(*) If I select some obj in the viewport I want in the LM right click and see a new button called "new layer from selection". Like in theonion
Doesn't the "Add selection to new layer" do this already?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
(*) Freeze-unfreeze button directly in the LM, neat the layer icon, not with right mouse button. Like in theonion
See my reply to Rockin above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
(*) I click in the viewport and in the LM i want to change the layer. So I will click the second layer and we want a button to "add to this layer"
I do see the point of having a feature like this. I've discussed this with someone else a while ago too. There is a practical problem in the way the rightclick and selecting works in the Outliner. For example, if you right-click on a non-selected node, it will be selected. This is of course quite nice. It does also mean that you'd loose your initial object selection when right-clicking on the layer you'd like to add it to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
(*) It's possible to "no highlight" or no select the object or layer in the Layer manager when i click in the viewport?
If you mean that the layer should not be expanded when selecting an object on it, then take a look at the "Expand selection" option in the layer mode options, set it to "Never".
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
(*) Also, a function to "Delete empty layers", like in theOnion.
Could be a nice one for the Workflow Tools too
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
The Onion have a lot of useful tool, directly in the interface. You can "copy" some idea from the the onion ehehh....
Yes, although my personal opinion is that a user interface should either be very minimal, or modular (customizable by the user). My experience has been that you regularly use a very small set of tools. All the other stuff in a UI will just make it feel cramped and messy. And with max' own ability to create toolbars and ribbons, the user can decide which tools he/she would like to see, and which he doesn't need. That's why I chose to keep the amount of buttons in the Outliner to an absolute minimum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by martroyx
I think I'm becoming addict to you're new version, but since I'm using the old scene explorer, I'm kind of accustomed to selecting objects by click&drag, do you think this could be implemented without too much of a headache?
Well, it's not a very straightforward thing to implement, it will certainly take quite a bit of time. I do agree that it would be very nice to have though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martroyx
Another features that I think could be interesting, is to be able to delete object from the scene with different kind of filter, like delete all spline from the scene for example :-)
That could make an interesting addition to the Workflow Tools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martroyx
Ho and maybe this last one, I've got a very old computer that can barely run 3dsmax and I'm noticing that selecting object and updating the list add a little bit of pressure for other script that create/delete lots of objects ...I know I can just close the outliner but maybe a pause function could be nice :-)
Hmm I don't really see how this would be an improvement over closing/opening it. Either way, from a technical point of view it's not very feasible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
Sometime, in a heavy scene and some hours, when i right click on the LM to create a new layer, the Outliner UI disappears. I see only the "create e new later" button :( . I need to restart 3ds max and all work fine in the same scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNemos
Lol i thought that i was the only one having this bug. When you rightclick the outliner dissapears and only the rightclick menu is there. When you create a layer the outliner appears. I had this only twice.
Is it just the treeview that disappears, or do the buttons in the rest of the UI disappear as well?
 
Old 04-12-2010, 09:14 AM   #25
Pjanssen
Veteran
portfolio
Pier Janssen
Göteborg, Sweden
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
New IMPORTANT wish in nasty layers. If I have the main layer named A and the nasty layer named 1-2-3-4
I click on the visibility icon on A and all disappear in viewport. Ok, perfect. Now I want unhide only layer 2. I click on the layer visibility icon on nasty layer 1. Nothing happen. In my idea, if I click the visibility for layer 1, this will be un-hide. Right now I need to make ON the visibility for the main layer and hide later 1,3,4, except my layer 2. No very useful this method.

In theonion I can hide-unhide the main layer (A) by right click on a random nasty layer (1-2-3-4), or click on single layer for visibility ON-OFF very easy and fast. This is not possible in the Outliner without loosing a lot of time and mouse click. I will stay with theOnion without this possibility. This option is VERY IMPORTANT in my opinion.
I have been thinking a lot about how the nested layers should work with hiding/freezing. I think that having parent properties override child properties when hidden/frozen makes perfect sense. On the other hand, I understand the point you are making when you want to unhide one of a number of nested layers.
I think that there's basically two ways we can go about this:
1) a layers parent setting can override a child layers setting (parent layer hidden, child layer unhidden -> child layer is hidden)
2) layer properties will simply be propagated downwards (parent layer hidden, child layer unhidden -> child layer is unhidden).

Lets look at a simple case:
Code:
Layer01 (not hidden) |--Layer02 (not hidden) |--Layer03 (hidden)

I think we can agree that when we'd hide Layer01, all layers will become hidden:
Code:
Layer01 (hidden) |--Layer02 (hidden) (was not hidden) |--Layer03 (hidden) (was hidden)

However, when Layer01 is unhidden again, a choice has to be made: do we want this to cause all layers to be unhidden, or do we want Layer03 to remain hidden, because this was the value set on the layer itself?

And what should happen if we unhide either Layer02 or Layer03? If they have to be unhidden, this means that Layer01 does not override the properties of its child layers, but simply sets them once.

I can certainly see the merit in both techniques. To me, the option where parent layers override properties of their children feels more logical. But the other option may be more practical...
 
Old 04-12-2010, 09:51 AM   #26
cecofuli
Engineer
 
cecofuli's Avatar
portfolio
Francesco Legrenzi
Modeler / Lighter
Architecture Studio Piva
Milan, Italy
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 847
hi Pjanssen

(*) I think the correct way to work is show here, at 7min and 21sec, when hide-unhide a Sphere. We want all flexibility in the layer. We can't click on 30 layers for unhide only one ehehe... . Now Outliner is a tedious and boring task unhide only one nasty layer :(

http://www.cgtraining.com/Videos/ZK...KSM03Tree2.html

(*) For the autoexpand you can see this video. fangorn project is dead some years ago.

http://www.fangornlm.com/Movies/Fangorn_movie_02.avi

(*) Add selection to new layer only work if I expand the layer or layers where the objects are. For example if I've a layer named "Sphere" (with all sphere in that layer) and a second layer "Torus" (with all torus in that layer), if I select some spheres and torus and I want create a new layer, it's impossible without expanding all layer and see all the object. If I've 1.000 different object in 10 different layer? Will be very difficult. See this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HCQcRIn3k

(*) About the selection. In my opinion, like in the Onion, the user must have the flexibility if select the objects in the layer (click on the little arrow + SHIFT in theOnion) or simply play with the layer, without boring to the selection all the time I click on a layer. See my previous video with Onion. Also see fangorn UI. In the top you have the most important tool: NEW, DELETE, ADD and SELECT. Will be a good idea add this button in the Outliner UI. I want play with the Layer, not see all the time what object are in that layer and select that obj in viewport.

(*) A minimal interface is ok. Ribbon is sh..t in my opinion. But The Onion is minimal and compact too, also fangorn, but without spend a lot sf mouse click or every time right click to access a sub-menu, we want all the option for manage the layer directly in the UI, for fast access and visibility. Right now in Outliner all functions are in the right mouse menu. The most important tool, for me, must be in the main UI, like The Onion

(*) The buttons in the rest of the UI disappear.

Sorry for my question and asking, but after 5 years with TheOnion, work with the Outliner layer manager is, trust me, very slow . Just I want to put my experience here
__________________
Francesco Legrenzi
www.francescolegrenzi.com
VRay - THE COMPLETE GUIDE

Last edited by cecofuli : 04-12-2010 at 09:55 AM.
 
Old 04-12-2010, 01:47 PM   #27
Pjanssen
Veteran
portfolio
Pier Janssen
Göteborg, Sweden
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecofuli
(*) I think the correct way to work is show here, at 7min and 21sec, when hide-unhide a Sphere. We want all flexibility in the layer. We can't click on 30 layers for unhide only one ehehe... . Now Outliner is a tedious and boring task unhide only one nasty layer :(
http://www.cgtraining.com/Videos/ZK...KSM03Tree2.html
This video only shows how layers and objects behave, and that's exactly the same as in max by default, and as it does in the outliner.
It does show a little bit about setting properties with the layer group, but doesn't show what would happen if the properties of the childlayers were different from the parent. And that's really the interesting part
Quote:
(*) For the autoexpand you can see this video. fangorn project is dead some years ago. http://www.fangornlm.com/Movies/Fangorn_movie_02.avi
I don't really see what you're referring to in this video, sorry.

Quote:
(*) Add selection to new layer only work if I expand the layer or layers where the objects are. For example if I've a layer named "Sphere" (with all sphere in that layer) and a second layer "Torus" (with all torus in that layer), if I select some spheres and torus and I want create a new layer, it's impossible without expanding all layer and see all the object. If I've 1.000 different object in 10 different layer? Will be very difficult. See this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HCQcRIn3k
Yes I do see the point of having a "add selection to this layer" feature. It's just not feasible to implement this at the moment (or possibly ever). A big difference between Fangorn and The Onion compared to the Outliner, is that the Outliner shows both layers and objects, whereas the other two just show layers.

Quote:
(*) About the selection. In my opinion, like in the Onion, the user must have the flexibility if select the objects in the layer (click on the little arrow + SHIFT in theOnion) or simply play with the layer, without boring to the selection all the time I click on a layer. See my previous video with Onion. Also see fangorn UI.
Hmm sorry I don't understand what you mean...

Quote:
I want play with the Layer, not see all the time what object are in that layer and select that obj in viewport.
Set the Expand Selection to "never" in the options to avoid automatic expansion of layers when selecting in the viewport.

Quote:
(*) A minimal interface is ok. Ribbon is sh..t in my opinion. But The Onion is minimal and compact too, also fangorn, but without spend a lot sf mouse click or every time right click to access a sub-menu, we want all the option for manage the layer directly in the UI, for fast access and visibility. Right now in Outliner all functions are in the right mouse menu. The most important tool, for me, must be in the main UI, like The Onion
I disagree about The Onion being minimal. Yes it's compact, but not minimal. To be honest, the amount of stuff in the UI makes me dizzy. I have similar problems with the UI design of the Ephere Zookeeper. There's just such an overload of buttons and icons and whatnot, I completely loose the overview. No disrespect to the creators of these tools by the way, it's just a design decision.
But one of my main goals for the Outliner has been -and still is- to provide maximum functionality with a minimal UI. Any special or extra features someone would like to have , which are often very specific to a users preferences, should either be fully integrate-able into the existing UI, or should be done as an external tool.
Max toolbars (or ribbon if you prefer) are excellent for little tools like "create new layer from selection". These could still use the Outliner of course. Due to the nature of maxscript, pretty much everything in the Outliner is exposed to 'the outside world', so a script can easily build upon functionality in the Outliner.

Quote:
(*) The buttons in the rest of the UI disappear.
That's crazy... I'll see if I can find the cause and do something about it.
 
Old 04-12-2010, 02:30 PM   #28
cecofuli
Engineer
 
cecofuli's Avatar
portfolio
Francesco Legrenzi
Modeler / Lighter
Architecture Studio Piva
Milan, Italy
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 847
(*) Of corse, yes . In this video

http://www.cgtraining.com/Videos/ZK...KSM03Tree2.html

At 7min and 21sec, see how the children and parent spheres are hide. You can have a parent hide, but you can play with the children visibility in one click. The rest of the children are hide. In the ioutliner you don't have the same independence. Anyway, tha same concept are in my TheOnion video. You can hide, unhide the entire group or a single layer just one click.

(*) In this video

http://www.fangornlm.com/Movies/Fangorn_movie_02.avi

you can see the autoexpand mode. Now in the Outliner, if I expand, i see all layer, sub-layer but also all obj. If I've a 4.000 object... wow! The LM UI will be very long. In the LM will be useful if I have the ability to see only the layer name, not the object inside. And yes, fangor and onion only Layer name. This is a layer manager. But if it's not difficult to implement in outliner ehehe ...

(*) In Outliner, if I click on the layer name... boom! All obj in the layer are selected. If in this layer I've 1.000 obj, my viewport will be creazy! In the onion if I click on the layer name, this affect only the visibility. If I want to select the obj inside, I've a second button. Very easy and convenient workflow. Layer manager IS at first place a layer manager, not a selection manager.

(*) About the minimal, ok, it's personal opinion, but if I want a minimal UI, but all tools, button etc.. are hide inside 1-2-3 sub-menu and I must click 3 times my mouse, sorry, but I prefer less minimal but more pratical UI . See the "new layer button". Why every time I press my right mouse , found the sub-menu and finally click "new layer". This button will be in the first place. When I see any layer manager, like in Max, Maya, Fangor, TheOnion etc..., "create a new layer" and the most important button are in the main UI, not in sub-menu. This speed up my workflow.
__________________
Francesco Legrenzi
www.francescolegrenzi.com
VRay - THE COMPLETE GUIDE

Last edited by cecofuli : 04-12-2010 at 02:33 PM.
 
Old 04-12-2010, 02:33 PM   #29
DarkNemos
Know-it-All
 
DarkNemos's Avatar
portfolio
Nemanja Stavric
Lighting and Texture Artist
Looking for work
Belgrade, Serbia
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 393
Send a message via MSN to DarkNemos
Dude outliner is not onion. And by the way why didn't you join the beta phase when you have so much great ideas?
__________________
It is a poor artist who blames his tools for his work.

- Jeremy Birn
 
Old 04-12-2010, 02:42 PM   #30
jonadb
3D Artist
 
jonadb's Avatar
Jonathan de Blok
Netherlands
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,308
I've been using it for a few days now.. brilliant! thanks!
__________________
The GPU revolution will not be rasterized! - http://www.jdbgraphics.nl
 
reply share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.