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Old 03-18-2014, 10:49 PM   #31
hazmondo's Avatar
Rigging TD
Axis Animation
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 329
I made a post earlier and said 3ds Max 2015 was a solid release, this was before I looked a the huge development which has gone into Maya.

Why does 3ds Max still not have a fluid solver whereas Maya's just got another one? Mentioning that there are a range of third party choices is not acceptable.

Maya's Smooth Skinning has received some nice improvements over the years like dual quaternion skinning, heat mapping and weight distribution options and now they've got some voxel method - an update of 3ds Max's Skin modifier is overdue (introducing the ability to list bones in ascending or descending order in 2013 does not count as a feature).

Maya now has OpenSubdiv's built in, 3ds Max has to drop TurboSmooth and adopt Catmull-Clarke subdivision surfaces if for nothing else other than better interoperability with Maya and Mudbox.

mental ray for Maya now supports PTex files, I hope that mental ray for 3ds Max also supports it otherwise that would be annoying...

I still think it's a solid release (which doesn't mean good, just better than 2014), but other than Python, which wasn't demoed, I don't think there's a lot to get excited about unlike the Maya release.

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Old 03-18-2014, 10:56 PM   #32
maziar rud
Western Sahara
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 329
God this typical behavior, no matter what, if next release comes and they finally give us Bifrost you'd still hear the same words and the same complaints, just about something else that's not there, and here's another thing, some of those things that you are calling nothing are actually someone else's top requested thing, so they're not nothing.
Old 03-18-2014, 11:22 PM   #33
Lord of the posts
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,305
Even there were Maya fluids they get the new bifrost. It may be thrilling what will happen to softimages "ice".. but i think part of the functionality will be, or is allready in Maya.

Not at all. I was thinking that Biforst would turn into ICE 2 but it seems they are very far from it. It isn't even half way done as a fluid system.
Old 03-18-2014, 11:30 PM   #34
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Eric Craft
Dallas, USA
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,666
Originally Posted by mynewcat
Eric, you're definitely a valuable member if the community - but we all know you are on the beta team and collaborate with the development teams and always come to their defence.
That is completely wrong. I was one of the people who fought as much as possible with the management at the time when they decided to include Box#3 in the ECS only. I did understand once I found out why it happened the way it did, but in no way did I agree with it. I told them it was a mistake to not be open when stuff is being removed, like when Reactor was dropped. There are many other places where I have backed the users as well. The fact is I typically fall in the middle and when threads like this are so one sided to being hateful you will see me try and level it out. I don't get paid by Autodesk or hold stock in the company. I do spend time to get to know the people behind the product and do everything I can to improve it for all users and not just myself, so I am a little open minded and understanding of the realities of software development.

I like most people here have a long list of things that I need on a daily basis in 3ds max, and I do what I can to get those features integrated. Sure a large amount of this release doesn't really play into what I need, but I am not going to run off and threaten to leave year, after year, after year. Viewport performance is going to be nice thing to have, active shade for mr is welcome, explorers will be nice update (though we still need some core maxscript functionality addressed with them), and I see the quad chamfer as better solution than Marius' tech as it is integrated into the existing technology and not just a drop in acquisition. The fact is 3ds max pays my bills and gets my work done, but if/when that stops happening I will find something else to use.

On the topic of Bifrost at this point I haven't seen anything that makes me think that is what I want. When fluids are integrated into 3ds max I hope it is something that can compete with something like PhoenixFD and not just be a drop in feature or tech toy so they can say 3ds max has fluids. At this point I can't say how production and feature ready Bifrost is and I have no issue with letting it bake with Maya, while they get the 1.x issues worked out. We know that Bifrost is based on Naiad technology, but at this time don't know how much of that made it into Bifrost, what is lacking, and how it compares. From this article at fxguide:
What’s not in Maya 2015?
A fair amount actually – in this release of Bifröst there is no viscus fluids or surface tension, no smoke or plume style gas sims, no foam and spray (other than what one can do via a workaround), as noted no multi-machine rendering and there is no access to the underlying procedural graph.

"The Evil Monkey hiding in your closet."
Old 03-19-2014, 02:59 AM   #35
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 296
everyone calm down,

there's a rumor that quad chamfer was introduced.

imagine the power you can wield with quad chamfer
Old 03-19-2014, 05:48 AM   #36
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Zachary Brackin
3D Artist
Precocity LLC
Dallas, USA
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Posts: 3,976
Originally Posted by Rudiam
God this typical behavior, no matter what, if next release comes and they finally give us Bifrost you'd still hear the same words and the same complaints, just about something else that's not there, and here's another thing, some of those things that you are calling nothing are actually someone else's top requested thing, so they're not nothing.

They wouldn't have to do much to add Naiad support back to 3ds Max, the fact that it's not there is a big deal. And we're still waiting for our unified simulation system.
The Z-Axis
Old 03-19-2014, 08:01 AM   #37
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Gabriele Rainoldi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 25
this should be a free update not a new release...really disappointing "news"
Old 03-19-2014, 08:47 AM   #38
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Andrew J Van Dalsem
Senior Animator
Carbine Studios
Santa Ana, USA
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All the great big Maya 2015 banner ads on the forum are a nice touch, too.

Salt. Wound. *rub rub rub*
Old 03-19-2014, 09:09 AM   #39
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1
Dear CGSociety

There are many things to celebrate today. I am making the rounds, interested in the comments. This is my first time posting here. For those that don't know me, I am the Product Manager for 3ds Max. You can find out more about me here .

I wanted to thank many of you for your support and constructive criticism. As I hope I have demonstrated in other arenas, I will gladly discuss the future and success of 3ds Max in a professional manner, anytime, anywhere. I know that there is a silent majority that is rooting for the success of Autodesk and 3ds Max. Even for those that voice their opinion in a more hostile tone, I hope that in most instances, it is a display of passion and concern for this application we all know and love.

But, when there are reports that are blatantly false, I must set the record straight.

First, as I've stated elsewhere, recent decisions regarding the continued development of software titles at Autodesk are never easy. Nor are they sweeping. Software titles are evaluated on individually and do not reflect the entire portfolio or the other titles in it. 3ds Max is one of the top performers at Autodesk.

Secondly, as Mark Twain is often misquoted, “the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated”. Again, I will point out all of the positive steps Autodesk has taken for 3ds Max. Growing the team in expertise and experience, focusing on the UserVoice and Charter advisory boards to make sure your voice is heard, streamlining the development process and returning those savings to R&D. All that and so much more. And the good news is that all of that hasn't even taken the field yet. From a software development aspect as well as a life aspect, these are exactly the steps I imagine you would take if the roles were reversed.

Please don’t tell me you've heard it before. You didn't hear about Tom Hudson, Martin Coven, Jenni O’Conner, Nicholas Fonta, Sonja Muller and others you know and respect or are getting to know, coming together to join Kelcey Simpson, Mike Russo, Kelly Michels, Chris Young and Chris Bradshaw to make a better 3ds Max.

That isn't speculation, these aren't empty promises, these are real, talented people committed to making a difference in your experience and what I call “proof”.

Actually, I think I might be on to something. In the U.S., we are in the middle of college basketball tournaments or “March Madness”. Using the hashtag #maxmadness, twitter the software development steps you would recommend. Not features, that’s what UserVoice is for. I’m talking role reversal; you have the keys, steps you would take if you ran the candy store. I will read some of them during the Expert Challenge March 26th. It may win you a 3ds Max t-shirt. I will be posting this on other forums as well. But, let’s keep this professional. We’re doing this for the greater good.
Old 03-19-2014, 09:28 AM   #40
New Member
Norfolk, United Kingdom
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Hooch

That was epic, mate. We can't stop laughing here in the office.
Have a great day.
As for Max 2015= I hope the improvements they've made on Populate include higher poly bodies and better textures, even with the HiRes pack the outcome is still horrific. I know it's purpose is for long distance shots but I am not asking for close up quality, more like medium distance quality. Oh well... we'll see soon.
Old 03-19-2014, 10:47 AM   #41
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Intars Kocesevs
CG artist
Riga, Latvia
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 231
That trash-fight scene was a bomb

This men, chief-cook, servant, whoever this brave-man is he just - he just slapped everyone. Holding my stomach! Here, take some slap you bastards

He should be at Autodesk meeting right now and wear Max&XSI T-shirt to make things more clear
Old 03-19-2014, 11:27 AM   #42
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Garry Clarke
Horsham, United Kingdom
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 245

Yes, I do use a lot of those features. I work in engineering visualisation (with a bit of FX thrown on top) and Point Clouds are getting used more and more often, (they have been in Max since the 2014 subscription package so hardly a new feature). And IGES export, you'd be surprised how often I'm asked for this. So it's me, I asked for it, and this time round I'm fairly happy, I also got nested layers, improvements to State Sets and more work done under the hood.

It could be better of course I would have liked a bit more considering the cost of subs.

You see, just because you don't want a feature it dosn't mean that 'no one asked for it'.

BTW I also use the egg spline tool as well, I bet no one asked for that either
Old 03-19-2014, 11:38 AM   #43
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Andrew Whitney
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,118
In all this bashing can I ask a question ?

The ShaderFx is pretty old tech - is it compatible/use-able with modern game engines that use Physically Based renderers such as Unity 5 and Marmoset 2/Skyshop ?
Renderfarm hire available @
Old 03-19-2014, 12:43 PM   #44
maziar rud
Western Sahara
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 329
@darthviper, First off, even though they've said it's a product agnostic tool and can be integrated into all their packages, I assume it still takes quite some time and man power to implement it, now considering that every job has priorities, did you rather have a fluid system before a better scene management tool? also the fact of the matter is that the requests about implementing a fluid sim tool has just(in the past month actually) reached a level officially in uservoice that they can and should react to, it just wasn't there before that(yes I know we made a lot of noise about it in the MU thread but they are - and understandably too - putting UserVoice as their go to channel for feature requests), so at this point I really hope people start to voice their needs in an official manner rather than in different sub forums.

And btw, as pointed out by others, the maya bifrost implementation isn't a complete production ready implementation anyways, so I too rather wait a bit longer and get a more tried and tested system rather than a half baked one, I though everybody agreed on that point before this.

@hotknife, Kees(developer of shaderfx) has already pointed out that since pretty much every engine out there uses a somewhat customized shading system you can't directly export a shaderfx tree and import the resulting code into an engine and expect it to work properly, though as he mentions if you are really good at coding shaders you can still modify the exported code to make it compatible, hypothetically.

Old 03-19-2014, 12:52 PM   #45
sl, Austria
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Posts: 756

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