v2014 better viewport?

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Old 09 September 2013   #16
Originally Posted by shokan: I haven't yet used either Max or Maya 2014. To refocus here a bit, which one has realtime display qualities that are closest to a final render.


You can download the trials at Autodesk and compare. In case of Max 2014 you can install my PowerPreview script, which gives you as much Nitrous tweaking options as possible.
http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/s...itrous-previews

Qualitywise the improvements in Max 2014 over Max 2013 aren't that obvious, it's more a case of stability, speed and configurability ( at least when using PowerPreview)
Needless to say that i would'nt base a decision upon which package to use base on the vewiport quality, but over the existing know how and the field i work in ...

Here are some Nitrous examples, the car is Nitrous in Max 2012 though
full-res version of the image below



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Last edited by spacefrog : 09 September 2013 at 05:35 AM.
 
Old 09 September 2013   #17
As of version 2014(and I have tested this myself) Max has a better performance and can handle very heavy scenes much better that Maya, but Maya's viewport has a few more features, ie. support for motion blur or realtime tessellation/displacement(basically features that you'd see in a realtime game engine viewport these days)...

Since Kees is here, I'd like to ask him if these kind of features can/will appear in Max in the future and is there a particular technical reason why they aren't implemented yet?
 
Old 09 September 2013   #18
Originally Posted by kees: Why is that?
(Not saying it is or isn't true, but would like to know why you feel it is a better fit)

What are the big differences between Nitrous and viewport 2.0? Are you in contact with the developers from Nitrous?

What I don't like with nitrous is motion blur, for what I understand you have to use multipas, but this can be bypassed with motion vectors.
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Old 09 September 2013   #19
I think your questions are all valid, but unfortunately I cannot speak about what future improvements will be made to Max (also: I don't even know! )

I was more interested in hearing what the user experience is when you try both viewports. Where one aligns better with your needs then the other etc.

Performance, extendable (write your own shaders), good preview of final render, great for games/film/viz, etc.
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Old 09 September 2013   #20
Actually I just wanted to know solely from a technical standpoint can they(the Dx.11 features) be implemented in Nitrous or is there a particular technical difficulty in the way, that has prevented that from happening.
 
Old 09 September 2013   #21
Originally Posted by Rudiam: Actually I just wanted to know solely from a technical standpoint can they(the Dx.11 features) be implemented in Nitrous or is there a particular technical difficulty in the way, that has prevented that from happening.


I think its more of a product policy reason from Autodesk. They simply push Maya hard on the game development front. It remains to be seen what Autodesk will do further on with Max, with all the upset they generated because of this heavy focus on pushing Maya...
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Old 09 September 2013   #22
Originally Posted by darthviper107: As far as being buggy, here's all the issues I have (on various machines at different times)

-being able to select an edge in the perspective view depends on how close you are to it, a lot of times you have to zoom out to be able to select an edge.
-edges become less visible as they become parallel to the perspective view
-lights stop working the viewport
-incorrect shading and artifacts
-shaded with edges won't show edges
-shaded shows mesh inverted in some viewports
-shaded shows mesh inverted one half of the model in some viewports
-in front viewport the mesh looks like it's rotated, but it's not, looks correct from other views
-everything just stops being visible, including things like the grid. It's all there but the viewport shows nothing.

Some issues have been there since they first added Nitrous, all of them are issues I've had with Max 2014.


Can`t remember that i ever had one of these 'bugs'.
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Old 09 September 2013   #23
some points in that list might be connected to the somewhat broken viewport switching in 2014 ( still in SP2 ). And the description is to general to be really helpfull
Other than the viewport switching bug, i know only that there may be depth sorting issues in "Shaded" mode with transparent surfaces....
Hardware and GPU driver versions would be intersting too...
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Old 09 September 2013   #24
Well, there is indeed a issue with the front viewport sometimes.
But it`s very hard to reproduce.
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Old 09 September 2013   #25
The edges issue is always there, as far as how they become less visible if they are parallel to the view, or the issue of not being able to select edges if you're too close to them in the perspective view. Other issues I think are just random bugs. As far as hardware--GPU's I've used, GTX 460, GTX 560, GTX 580, GTX 770, CPU's: i7 960, Xeon W3520, i7 3930k, various drivers as they've been updated.

Usually the problem goes away if I restart Max, though sometimes I have to merge everything to a new scene.
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Old 09 September 2013   #26
Nitrous and Viewport 2.0 are based on the same library(Autodesk One Graphics System).

I think the reason why Nitrous have not have motion blur yet is because of under the hood limitation.

Maya had the same limitation, and I heard Maya team spent one year to solve that.
 
Old 09 September 2013   #27
Originally Posted by gandhics: Maya had the same limitation, and I heard Maya team spent one year to solve that.


Like the spend for every release cycle. I doubt that someone was soley dedicated to implement motion blur in the Maya viewport over the whole year. They will have spend one year too improve the viewport tech in general, with motionblur being one dedicated target to implement.
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Old 11 November 2013   #28
Is there any way to fix flickering of faces that are close together? I'm working with CAD data a lot, and once I zoom out a certain distance, close faces flicker and interpenetrate each other like crazy. It's really useless for doing viewport previews that aren't embarassingly unstable...
 
Old 11 November 2013   #29
You can try messing with the viewport clipping setting. But it is going to do that when you zoom out and the precision becomes less. The other thing to do is make sure the stuff in your scene isn't too big--if it takes up a lot of space (even if it's a simple object that's just very far away) then the z-fighting can happen.
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Old 11 November 2013   #30
You can also adjust the field of view in a perspective viewport to try to fix the Z-fighting and clipping issues.

Z-Fighting tends to occur much more frequently when the object is far from the virtual camera (even a perspective view has a virtual camera in this sense). Most realtime displays weight the Z-buffer towards the camera. If you have a narrow field of view (i.e. are zoomed in) then your camera is farther away from the geometry for the given magnification.

Note that using the mousewheel or the control-alt-MMB moves the virtual camera in a perspective view. This is not a zoom, or a change in field of view, it is a dolly, or a change in camera position. The Field of View tool changes the FOV. If you use it to zoom in then you are very likely to get issues like Z-fighting, or incorrect display of edge faces (see edges through geometry or not see edges when you should). Use the Field of View tool to set the particular perspective you need and then "zoom" (dolly) by using the mousewheel or the control-alt-mmb. You can see and adjust the field of view in the Viewport Configuration Dialog->Visual Style & Appearance tab. Generally going less than 5 degrees can being to show issues, less than 1 degree will almost definitely. It is based on the scale of your scene to some degree, though.

Also, a lot of the jagged artifacts you see in Nitrous are from the shadow maps. While you can adjust the shadow map size for Nitrous (google it - e.g. nitrousgraphicsmanager.ShadowmapSizeLimit=2048) this setting does not seem to affect the default lights. So add a viewing light yourself and use that for illumination to avoid this issue. You can then change its shadow map resolution.
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