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Old 08-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #1
Dralimazing
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how does the topolgy look ?

is this good this good topolgy ? any tips ?
 
Old 08-22-2013, 06:50 PM   #2
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There is a lot wrong here. Rather than typing it all up, I would recommend getting ahold of a premade character and study it. Especially where the legs meet as well as shoulders. Despite a lot of old tutorials saying box modeling is the way to go, I don't think it's the best way.

Just remember that verts are there to either define shape or allow creases in animation or smoothing. Otherwise it's a wasted vert.
 
Old 08-22-2013, 09:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffus3d
There is a lot wrong here. Rather than typing it all up, I would recommend getting ahold of a premade character and study it. Especially where the legs meet as well as shoulders. Despite a lot of old tutorials saying box modeling is the way to go, I don't think it's the best way.

Just remember that verts are there to either define shape or allow creases in animation or smoothing. Otherwise it's a wasted vert.



can u give me one of the tutorial's links ?
 
Old 08-22-2013, 09:45 PM   #4
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The tutorials I was talking about I don't feel are the best way to go. Your best bet:

EDIT: Changing the link to something better: http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/st...on#.UhbmjEDh43k

Now that uses and old plugin called PolyBoost that is now integrated into max. So you'll be spending some time finding things in the new layout. (Graphite Modeling tools)

Last edited by Diffus3d : 08-23-2013 at 04:35 AM.
 
Old 08-22-2013, 10:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffus3d
The tutorials I was talking about I don't feel are the best way to go. Your best bet:

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/st...3/#.UhaGjUDD790

Now that uses and old plugin called PolyBoost that is now integrated into max. So you'll be spending some time finding things in the new layout. (Graphite Modeling tools)


i have used graphite modeling tools before and its a tedious task to recreate everything (for me at least) . Instead of graphite modeling i remove unnecessary edge loops ( which apparently is a bad method ).

can you give me a tutorial that focuses on limb creation ? ive search the web but all of them seem to be gone (as in out dated and not there anymore [error 404]) .
 
Old 08-22-2013, 10:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralimazing
i have used graphite modeling tools before and its a tedious task to recreate everything (for me at least) . Instead of graphite modeling i remove unnecessary edge loops ( which apparently is a bad method ).

can you give me a tutorial that focuses on limb creation ? ive search the web but all of them seem to be gone (as in out dated and not there anymore [error 404]) .



No offense but I just did. If you think it's tedious now get out of the field while you still can. You can learn Zbrush but you'll still be retopologizing your model in graphite, zbrush, or topogun and it's the same tedious process.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 02:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffus3d
There is a lot wrong here. Rather than typing it all up, I would recommend getting ahold of a premade character and study it. Especially where the legs meet as well as shoulders. Despite a lot of old tutorials saying box modeling is the way to go, I don't think it's the best way.

Just remember that verts are there to either define shape or allow creases in animation or smoothing. Otherwise it's a wasted vert.


Hey AJ, totally unrelated, but why you dislike box modeling? I know it can be a pain sometimes to get some creases right, but when you're done it's ready for rigging. Just curious on your opinion.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davius
Hey AJ, totally unrelated, but why you dislike box modeling? I know it can be a pain sometimes to get some creases right, but when you're done it's ready for rigging. Just curious on your opinion.



Hey Davius, I recognize your name and avatar from when I was just starting, so I do know that your knowledge base is probably more experienced than mine, especially with modeling. (I'm a lighting/rendering guy primarily.)

My feelings are that (especially for the human body) starting with a cylinder or something more round makes more sense because it's closer to the final shape. I find from seeing hundreds of my students over the years using a box vs. a cylinder for starting modeling techniques that it seems to limit the possibilities of beginner students.

I am by no means a master modeler, so my opinion doesn't mean too much but I think it's easier for a newbie to articulate new limbs based on geometry that is already rounded. It seems to help them understand that they can cut in new edges or use a 6 sided (2 4 sided polys) shape for the arms is easier to find the right look and feel rather than forcing a 4 sided extrusion which newbies all tend to do. (And I did too.)

Truth is I had some very poor instructors when I was in school, so my bias may also be because I wasn't shown how to do it correctly in the first place. But I can always tell when someone started with a box because of how the limbs and things are shaped at the stage that the OP is in.

OP, I wasn't intending to upset you with that comment, and I am sorry if I did. I just don't want you to get into bad habits so soon. I know things can be tedious but it gets easier! =D
 
Old 08-23-2013, 04:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralimazing
can u give me one of the tutorial's links ?


To answer more specifically, the arms and crotch area only have 1 polygon in order to deform on rig, which will look very odd and stretch your texture a bit too much.

Best to avoid that soft of thing. Look at this image for a more detailed example: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kg8lo1kxJ..._pFc/s400/2.jpg

Not saying that is a perfect model (I just googled it randomly) but you can see that there are more edges in the armpit so that deformation becomes more viable. (Hope I am making sense.)

Tutorials you get off the net don't go far enough imho, and often are outdated and not explained well. I prefer DVDs specifically for the 'why', which online tutorials almost never tell you. Only how.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:27 AM   #10
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MASS fx error

Hey guys can help me out . I am using mass Fx and baking 1500 torus for chain simulation. but after 150 frames is giving Nvidia error. plz give segge.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 07:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffus3d
To answer more specifically, the arms and crotch area only have 1 polygon in order to deform on rig, which will look very odd and stretch your texture a bit too much.

Best to avoid that soft of thing. Look at this image for a more detailed example: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kg8lo1kxJ..._pFc/s400/2.jpg

Not saying that is a perfect model (I just googled it randomly) but you can see that there are more edges in the armpit so that deformation becomes more viable. (Hope I am making sense.)

Tutorials you get off the net don't go far enough imho, and often are outdated and not explained well. I prefer DVDs specifically for the 'why', which online tutorials almost never tell you. Only how.


none taken(offense that is). critique like urs is what makes a person better at what he does .is there a way i could contact u in private ?
 
Old 08-23-2013, 07:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralimazing
none taken(offense that is). critique like urs is what makes a person better at what he does .is there a way i could contact u in private ?


You can use the private message function in cgtalk, probably best bet. I'm flooded with so many emails every day people get lost. I check the private message in cgtalk maybe once a week but I am happy to help on the forums or the cgtalk mail.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffus3d
You can use the private message function in cgtalk, probably best bet. I'm flooded with so many emails every day people get lost. I check the private message in cgtalk maybe once a week but I am happy to help on the forums or the cgtalk mail.


i sent u a pm but through ur description i dont think ur gonna find it anytime soon so im just gonna type it up here :
so when i model the character i first model a base mesh in 3ds max then export it to zbrush for editing . once im done with zbrush i export the mesh back to 3ds max for retopologising(either via graphite modeling or just removing edge loops). i noticed the u said something a a vertex being a waste if its not defining the shape of the mesh or adding smoothness to deformation , correct ? my character is really muscular and im finding it hard to show that he is (in max at least ) any tips on getting nice muscle definition with good topology ?
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:56 AM   #14
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Ok so you are further along than I had thought before. In that case what you need to focus on is edge flow when you are retopologizing them in max or whatever program you use. There might be tutorials out there but I always just study other models I come across. You can see examples of edge flow ideas here:

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&c...&ty=90#imgdii=_

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3PuUp98BM...by_flow_103.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/4g69mg.jpg

See how the edges flow around the basic lines that form our bodies? It's not enough to simply make a verticle/horizontal gride and cut that way. notice the fat guy has the edge flow all around his stomach making it easier to see the weight on him. Or how the edges flow around the eyes in the second link. There are reasons for this, think about how the shoulder will deform when it's rigged and moves downward in the 1st link vs. the image you posted. The difference is in the edge flow and what those lines are doing. (And nobody expects you to just know that, we all have to go through this.)

On the third link we can basically see the main muscle groups just through the edge flow, it's quite nice there. Trapezius and shoulders blend nicely but also indicate the scapula as well. Once you have a super zbrush sculpt to trace over, maybe break out an anatomy book and trace some lines on it where you'd like to see lines flow or muscles indicated.

Again I like to study models other people have made. I'd like to think I've learned more from that than in other places, though a gnomon sub was kinda huge for me. I'm still no where near the master modelers on this site, I do super low poly stuff for games so... keke.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 10:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffus3d
Ok so you are further along than I had thought before. In that case what you need to focus on is edge flow when you are retopologizing them in max or whatever program you use. There might be tutorials out there but I always just study other models I come across. You can see examples of edge flow ideas here:

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&c...&ty=90#imgdii=_

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3PuUp98BM...by_flow_103.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/4g69mg.jpg

See how the edges flow around the basic lines that form our bodies? It's not enough to simply make a verticle/horizontal gride and cut that way. notice the fat guy has the edge flow all around his stomach making it easier to see the weight on him. Or how the edges flow around the eyes in the second link. There are reasons for this, think about how the shoulder will deform when it's rigged and moves downward in the 1st link vs. the image you posted. The difference is in the edge flow and what those lines are doing. (And nobody expects you to just know that, we all have to go through this.)

On the third link we can basically see the main muscle groups just through the edge flow, it's quite nice there. Trapezius and shoulders blend nicely but also indicate the scapula as well. Once you have a super zbrush sculpt to trace over, maybe break out an anatomy book and trace some lines on it where you'd like to see lines flow or muscles indicated.

Again I like to study models other people have made. I'd like to think I've learned more from that than in other places, though a gnomon sub was kinda huge for me. I'm still no where near the master modelers on this site, I do super low poly stuff for games so... keke.


the model i posted was just an attempt to see if deleting edge loops was a good method or not .
here is another model i made but with graphite modeling , i would appreciate your opinion regarding the topology a lot .

 
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