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Old 01 January 2013   #31
there is one program, which goes mostly unnoticed by the cg-community, but as an architect i work 50/50 max and rhino. yes rhino.. this oldschool command line driven nurbs modeller with no real ui concept except lots of buttons - but hear me out:
Due to its open architecture, it can connect over the shiny new node based editor (grasshopper) to almost anything, from a kinect to a robot arm or your iphone. through the sdk and the node based approach you can write your own c# nodes in realtime - and there is physics, fluids and tons of other stuff created by the community. The core geometry engine is incredibly well maintained over the years, and a version cycle is usually 4 years.

This is the one exception i can name regarding this mature program decline thing..
I would love to switch my pipeline to this software, but without a decent ui concept (speed) and the fact its not intended for cg people makes it impossible for now - still its a good example how things can be made the right way (even while keeping an ui concept from the stone age)
 
Old 01 January 2013   #32
I like some of the updates like the Nvidia physics stuff... but let's face it it's just an update to Max's pathetically out dated physics add ons that I predict will be abandoned once again in a few years.

However I can't really use it because max above version 2012 is fucking unusable. It's slow as fuck and they still haven't fixed backburner.

So after next year I'm dumping subscription support and the ten other seats and sticking to 2012 until they get their shit together.

edit: I lie... It's 2012 that i'm using now and we only switched to it after SP1 came out. :-P how silly of me

And i'm still using Backburner 2008 since that was the last time it was stable and compatible with all versions of max and maya we have in house.
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Last edited by DanHibiki : 01 January 2013 at 10:21 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #33
Originally Posted by DanHibiki: So after next year I'm dumping subscription support and the ten other seats and sticking to 2010 until they get their shit together.
Just be sure to budget for it appropriately. The new 6 release (2007-2012) and 30% discount upgrade is going into effect on Feb 1, 2013. Which means the Subscription to upgrade cost benefit falls in the 5-6 years/releases area.

Based on my region pricing and my upcoming subs renewal price:
Current New license: $3675
Current Sub price: $495
Upgrade Price: $2572.50 ($3675*.7)
Upgrade to Sub ratio: 1:5.196

So if you don't plan on upgrading every 5 years you may be good (though this may depend on your 3rd party dependency and their upgrade strategies as well).

-Eric
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Old 01 January 2013   #34
Originally Posted by DanHibiki: I like some of the updates like the Nvidia physics stuff... but let's face it it's just an update to Max's pathetically out dated physics add ons that I predict will be abandoned once again in a few years.

However I can't really use it because max above version 2010 is fucking unusable. It's slow as fuck and they still haven't fixed backburner.

So after next year I'm dumping subscription support and the ten other seats and sticking to 2010 until they get their shit together.


Intersting.. 2010 was the worst/slowest version for me.
Currently I'm on 2012. It is a lot better than 2010 in any aspect.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #35
Originally Posted by PiXeL_MoNKeY: Just be sure to budget for it appropriately. The new 6 release (2007-2012) and 30% discount upgrade is going into effect on Feb 1, 2013. Which means the Subscription to upgrade cost benefit falls in the 5-6 years/releases area.

Based on my region pricing and my upcoming subs renewal price:
Current New license: $3675
Current Sub price: $495
Upgrade Price: $2572.50 ($3675*.7)
Upgrade to Sub ratio: 1:5.196

So if you don't plan on upgrading every 5 years you may be good (though this may depend on your 3rd party dependency and their upgrade strategies as well).

-Eric

6 years might be pushing it, but realistically I can open max9 or 8 now and do most of the things i'm doing now with 2012.

There are a handful of plugins that might not work that far back but everything major is still there.
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Old 01 January 2013   #36
Some say you can still get the latest of the greatest plugins for max9
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Old 01 January 2013   #37
There's a great thread over at Polycount about dropping back or just staying on Max 2009 for those interested:

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104082
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Old 01 January 2013   #38
Just as a response to some of the things that have been said up there...
Being a software developer myself (yeah, that too), I can say that yes, it is cumbersome to
change and shift with mature software. True.
As compassionate as I am for the developers at AD, I still don't see why come up with yet another version.

I do agree that Max is a great package but according to the last post:
Quote: There's a great thread over at Polycount about dropping back or just staying on Max 2009 for those interested:

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104082

is disturbing. Seeing max 2013 falling behind on FPS, after Max 2009 was so proud of its high rate fps for high polycount polys...
 
Old 01 January 2013   #39
Originally Posted by nirishere: Just as a response to some of the things that have been said up there...
Being a software developer myself (yeah, that too), I can say that yes, it is cumbersome to
change and shift with mature software. True.
As compassionate as I am for the developers at AD, I still don't see why come up with yet another version.

I do agree that Max is a great package but according to the last post:

is disturbing. Seeing max 2013 falling behind on FPS, after Max 2009 was so proud of its high rate fps for high polycount polys...


Recently I have done many benchmark between max versions.
Except when there are many moving objects, 2013 is not slower than 2009.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #40
Originally Posted by PiXeL_MoNKeY:
Personal recommendation, if you aren't happy try other products and read their forums here. See what their users are saying, but don't expect to see a large difference as from what I have found your feelings can be found by every product user group here.

-Eric


Not all software, Look at blender's forum or page or blenderartist, everyone put it's hands on the fire for blender, that software now is mature and has already more features than 3ds Max, it has improvements every month, support 24/7 and don't have to wait for a new patch. I use 3ds max in my office, I like it, I learn 3D with it but now it's become very expensive and the new features are not worthly to buy every year a new edition, in fact,my comapany that makes animation spots for tv can do the same with the 2009 version. I'll be moving my company to blender soon...
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Old 01 January 2013   #41
Originally Posted by DanHibiki: 6 years might be pushing it, but realistically I can open max9 or 8 now and do most of the things i'm doing now with 2012.

There are a handful of plugins that might not work that far back but everything major is still there.


Well, 5/6 years is a long time in CG. Apart from Max development obviously...

I really hope they change their mind on this, it's all 'look at the scary upgrade prices if you don't subscribe...'

Too much stick and no carrot, particularly in the light of treating those on subscription so shabbily last year.

Well, no Autodesk, I'm happy to just sit and wait - you've strung out this XBR nonsense long enough. There's a whole thread on polycount basically saying that version 4 years old is more usable than what we have.

There might be something worthwhile at the end of 5/6 releases, but based on their current thinking, I really doubt it.

All I see is Max shunted into the arch/viz area.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #42
Originally Posted by Steve Green:
There might be something worthwhile at the end of 5/6 releases, but based on their current thinking, I really doubt it.

All I see is Max shunted into the arch/viz area.



Exactly. I too saw the writing on the wall and though I love viz, I've left it behind because I can see my skillset stagnating as the software does relatively quickly. Moved to games and now I seldom use max at all, and when I do it's 2010. (Best version imho and the only version that is supported by the vast majority of proprietary systems we use from various publishers.) We use maya for the animators but it's all proprietary stuff, Zbrush, and UDK.

It was a good run though and I had a good time. Not missing the late nights and extra hours of a max only job.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #43
There's a 3DS London meeting February 6th where Frank DeLise is presenting.

http://3dslondon.co.uk/

NDAs have to be signed, but I really just want to be convinced that there's some solid progress in the pipeline, the last one I attended which Shane presented at really didn't - Pitchforks may need to be checked in at the door.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #44
Originally Posted by Steve Green: There's a 3DS London meeting February 6th where Frank DeLise is presenting.

http://3dslondon.co.uk/

NDAs have to be signed, but I really just want to be convinced that there's some solid progress in the pipeline, the last one I attended which Shane presented at really didn't - Pitchforks may need to be checked in at the door.


We need non-archvis guys to turn up or it'll reinforce the Autodesk belief that they are pushing max to archvis!

I'll be there, pitchfork in hand....
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Old 01 January 2013   #45
Well, I've e-mailed for a reservation - see how it goes... I might be banned by now...

I would certainly like to ask questions about the policy on subscription after the extensions last year, and this new policy on a flat-rate 70% upgrade.
 
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