General question: Why is PFlow still single-threaded?

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Old 11 November 2012   #1
Question General question: Why is PFlow still single-threaded?

Hey everybody.

Most of the users that have used PFlow know that it is limited to one thread. Thus, it runs much slower than it could, assuming that because of today's technology-standards you have a multi-threaded machine. To me, the single-thread limitation of PFlow is a huge rock in my fumefx/pflow/krakatoa workflow, and it really sucks, because I love to work with PFlow.

That said, I once read that this problem lies within core functions of PFlow, which is why it PFlow can't be easily made multi-threaded, unless its core code gets revamped.

My questions are: 1. Is the paragraph above (the reason for the single-thread limitation) correct? 2. Can we expect a multi-threaded version/update of PFlow anytime soon (or anytime in the future)?

Thank you and I am sorry if I'm just beating a dead horse.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #2
With the acquisition of the Box #2 and #3 Oleg has started working directly with Autodesk again. Hopefully that means that we will see more possibilities like multi-threading in the future. Though don't expect it to happen immediately as multi-threading isn't a click and solve all speed related issues. Depending on the processing of data there are times when multi-threading can slow things down.

-Eric
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Old 11 November 2012   #3
One thing I've noticed on a project we worked on recently is that 2013, can display more particles than it can render.

We have a P system that instances an object, the viewport displayed a 100% of the particles, when it came to render only a certain amount of the particles would render. I optimised the object that was instanced for the particles and it rendered the full amount. I'm assuming this was down to memory somewhere but couldn't get to the bottom of it. Odd the viewport displayed more than could/would be rendered.
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Old 11 November 2012   #4
Thanks to you both.

Eric, that is good news. I was expecting a long-term answer, so that's OK. And the fact that multi-threading can sometimes slow things down is very valid. I hadn't seen it from that perspective, perhaps because every time my viewport is dying due to a heavy PFlow system, I know that my resting 31 threads could help.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #5
@hotknife

A single pfsource has a max cap on how many polygons it will render. So once you pass that you'll start to see particles get ommited when rendering. So its not particle count but polygon count that is the issue.

@crozer

Most of pflow speeds limitations are really viewport display so switch to max 2013, we had something like 12 million particles in the viewport just fine and got it somewhere up to 19 million before it became unworkable!!!
 
Old 11 November 2012   #6
@Nickolay, are you kidding?! Wow, I jumped back to 2012 because, at the very first glance (I opened 2013 for like 10 minutes), I felt it would be really slow. It just looked as if its UI simply got cranked-up.

I'll have to try 2013 again haha.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #7
Hahha just checked my numbers...

It's actually 1.2 million thats working great. Just tried 12 million in the viewport it takes about 40 seconds to update. Still it is a major MAJOR improvment over 2012
 
Old 11 November 2012   #8
Originally Posted by Nickolay411: Hahha just checked my numbers...

It's actually 1.2 million thats working great. Just tried 12 million in the viewport it takes about 40 seconds to update. Still it is a major MAJOR improvment over 2012


Nonetheless.. I'm re-installing 2013 to test things out.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #9
Quote: A single pfsource has a max cap on how many polygons it will render. So once you pass that you'll start to see particles get ommited when rendering. So its not particle count but polygon count that is the issue.


Thanks for that, is there any way to up the polygon count ?
What I find odd is that the view port can display more than the renderer can handle, why should that be true, especially with today's renderers ?
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Old 11 November 2012   #10
Are you sure your render percent is 100% ???

I just tried to max out the mesh limit in 2012 for pflow doesn't seem like the original limit of half a million exists anymore...Which is good.

Check this old thread on the orbaz site.

http://orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.ph...t=polygon+count

Let me know if its either of those.
-N
 
Old 11 November 2012   #11
Quote: Are you sure your render percent is 100% ???


Yep 100% on render. Scene attached 2013 pu05
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Old 11 November 2012   #12
Originally Posted by PiXeL_MoNKeY: With the acquisition of the Box #2 and #3 Oleg has started working directly with Autodesk again. Hopefully that means that we will see more possibilities like multi-threading in the future. Though don't expect it to happen immediately as multi-threading isn't a click and solve all speed related issues. Depending on the processing of data there are times when multi-threading can slow things down.

-Eric


I am no coder, but in my crazy mind i think something like particles is perfectly fitted for more cores, no? Sinse the cpu needs to keep track of so many objects (particles) at the same time.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #13
Originally Posted by CHRiTTeR: I am no coder, but in my crazy mind i think something like particles is perfectly fitted for more cores, no? Sinse the cpu needs to keep track of so many objects (particles) at the same time.
Simple answer no. Read this thread over at Orbaz.com.

-Eric
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Old 11 November 2012   #14
Originally Posted by hotknife: Yep 100% on render. Scene attached 2013 pu05

there's a single mesh cap apparently, but if you switch 'render result' in the Render node to Mesh Per Particle it renders all the particles in the scene.
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Old 11 November 2012   #15
Originally Posted by hotknife: Yep 100% on render. Scene attached 2013 pu05
1) Don't use Scanline use mr or other raytrace engine.
2) Set the render results to Multiple Meshes (for scanline) or Mesh Per Particle (for mr or other raytrace engine).

-Eric
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