TurboSmooth Pro released

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Old 10 October 2012   #16
Great, nice to see that

I'll certainly purchase this plugin as it will help to cut mesh resolution by 50%, save us valuable time and get better looking meshes.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #17
I would like to hear from Neil Blevins if he likes this tool. He's had articles about this on his site for years, and maybe this solves some of those issues?
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Old 10 October 2012   #18
Originally Posted by obliviboy: A new video showing more creases and uv mapping http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fK5b6olDa0


Excellent. That UV issue we have with the traditional Meshsmooth and Turbosmooth is really a pain. I'm glad you have addressed that.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #19
Originally Posted by Decency: I would like to hear from Neil Blevins if he likes this tool. He's had articles about this on his site for years, and maybe this solves some of those issues?


He commented here on maxunderground ( 4th post from top )
http://www.maxunderground.com/archi...smooth_pro.html
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Old 10 October 2012   #20
Originally Posted by spacefrog: He commented here on maxunderground ( 4th post from top )
http://www.maxunderground.com/archi...smooth_pro.html


This is about as good a plug(no-pun) as you're likely to get.

This really is terrific to have within Max, and Neil is correct, AD should definitely license it from Marius.
I was so envious when I saw Pixar Sub-div appear in Modo.....

Big thumbs-up on all your super work Marius. It's people like yourself over the years who have always really expanded Max's toolchest.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #21
hi marius,

great work! For me at this year the Master of 3dsmax.

mfg
hot chip
 
Old 10 October 2012   #22
Got this last night, great tool and does exactly what I would expect.

However, there is one interesting side effect of this technique that I never really thought about until now. Normally when you subdivide something to round off its corners, you have a greater edge density near the corners since you would have placed holding edges there to maintain sharpness. With Turbosmooth Pro, you no longer need the holding edges.

This is nice of course, but you end up with a more "low resolution" corner if that makes sense. This can be fixed by upping the subdivision levels, but this will vastly increase the polycount on the rest of the object. So while you no longer need holding edges in most cases, to get a smooth round object now might take 5-6 SubD levels where previously 3-4 might have been sufficient.

*EDIT* Of course the upside is more even quad distribution, since they aren't packed into the corners of a model.

Just something to prepare for and get used to with this new workflow.
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Old 10 October 2012   #23
Originally Posted by Decency: This is nice of course, but you end up with a more "low resolution" corner if that makes sense. This can be fixed by upping the subdivision levels, but this will vastly increase the polycount on the rest of the object. So while you no longer need holding edges in most cases, to get a smooth round object now might take 5-6 SubD levels where previously 3-4 might have been sufficient.
The effect you describe has been in 3ds max for years in the HSDS modifier. It provides Hierarchical Subdivision (as well as adaptive subdivision), which has better crease workflow than Turbosmooth as the crease is handled in the modifier and not the base object. It does what you describe and follows more closely the Catmull-Clark workflow of only subdividing areas that need it. In the case of HSDS the subdivisions are applied based on current level selection of adaptive values.

Now, the crease results/smoothing aren't as nice as the TurboSmooth Pro and current OpenSubdiv tech, but it is one of those tools that has been around for years, but no one ever uses. Of course because it is older tech that hasn't much love it does have some workflow and other quirks, which could explain why people may have stopped using it.

In reality Turbosmooth Pro should probably be rewritten as Meshsmooth Pro to allow crease control in the modifier, as well subdivision modeling at the various subdivision levels. Include in some of the HSDS type tools like selective subdivision and show current level only, or show coloring based on subdivision levels like shown in the OpenSubdiv papers, would be beneficial as well. Finally add in a painter interface to move points at each level adjustment and you have an entry level Mudbox like tool (minus the texture and stencil painting).

-Eric
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Old 10 October 2012   #24
Would the quad-chamfer plugin help here? if somehow the chamfer radius would be linked to the smoothing sharpness it would be possible to make those corners more hi-res?
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Old 10 October 2012   #25
Quad chamfer seems like a quick way to add support loops non-destructively. This would probably give you better corners with less iterations of smoothing, and you get some of the advantages of TurboSmooth Pro since you don't need to add holding edges manually. I may have to experiment with that one as well.
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Old 10 October 2012   #26
Originally Posted by PiXeL_MoNKeY: The effect you describe has been in 3ds max for years in the HSDS modifier. It provides Hierarchical Subdivision (as well as adaptive subdivision), which has better crease workflow than Turbosmooth as the crease is handled in the modifier and not the base object. It does what you describe and follows more closely the Catmull-Clark workflow of only subdividing areas that need it. In the case of HSDS the subdivisions are applied based on current level selection of adaptive values.

-Eric


The problem I had with HSDS was that it's destructive. As soon as you attempt to change the base geometry in any way, all the changes in the HSDS modifier are messed up (same with attempting to edit below a UVWunwrap modifier or anything else reliant on vertex order not changing.

That made it totally useless for me as I wanted to see the end result and edit the base geometry. Not do the base geometry, complete it, edit all the subD patches and edge weights and what have you in the HSDS modifier and never ever go back.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #27
Bought this last night, excellent work! Next payday I'm getting QuadChamfer too
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Old 10 October 2012   #28

I released version 1.01.

Changes in 1.01
-Added a visualize edge creases mode
-Fixed a bug that caused faces set invisible to be displayed after they have been subdivided
-Fixed a typo in the UI, "Linear" instead of "Liniar"

Here is a video of the new Visualize edge crease mode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLJ0ftVu_8
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Old 10 October 2012   #29
My hat's off to you. Amazing stuff.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #30
Originally Posted by spacefrog: He commented here on maxunderground ( 4th post from top )
http://www.maxunderground.com/archi...smooth_pro.html


Yup, it's very cool that Marius did this, but for my purposes at least, since I can't move the mesh to Maya / mudbox, I won't be able to use the plugin. But should be useful to other people whose workflows involve staying max only.

Originally Posted by Decency: However, there is one interesting side effect of this technique that I never really thought about until now. Normally when you subdivide something to round off its corners, you have a greater edge density near the corners since you would have placed holding edges there to maintain sharpness. With Turbosmooth Pro, you no longer need the holding edges.

This is nice of course, but you end up with a more "low resolution" corner if that makes sense. This can be fixed by upping the subdivision levels, but this will vastly increase the polycount on the rest of the object. So while you no longer need holding edges in most cases, to get a smooth round object now might take 5-6 SubD levels where previously 3-4 might have been sufficient.


To understand this, you need to understand a bit about prman. When you render something in prman, it dices the objects into small micro-polygons, more polygons for closer objects, less for objects that are further away. This is why the renderer is good at stuff like displacement, since the mesh is already being diced no matter what, moving those micropolygons to a new location (displacement) isn't a huge time hit.

So most of the time if you used catmull clark creases (prior to the last few years), you were probably going to render the result in prman. So since prman already dices everything, the situation you're running into wouldn't be as big a deal. But since in max you're evenly dividing everything using turbosmooth, and the renderer isn't doing any calculations at rendertime to decide how finely to subdivide the mesh, using creases in max isn't going to be as efficient, at least until some of the max renderers get support, and calculate the necessary subdivision at rendertime.

- Neil
 
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