2013 extension announcement...rant

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Old 08 August 2012   #121
Originally Posted by monoGana: just to be sure i am correct ken can you answer this - > will standard 3ds max 2014 have box3 or is this going to be another branch in 3ds max with ECS max 2014 having box2 & box3 and standard max only having box2 (or neither)?


You should know that I can talk about specifics of releases outside of our quarterly boundaries. If you didn't, now you know.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #122
Great news. I cheer swift action in the matter. I still don't understand the thought behind the suit and box 3 though. You should make sure that there is a data reader node available so box 3 users can write operators for people to use. Not completely sure how it works though.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #123
First Ken, thanks for trying to move this forward quickly!

Is it not simple enough to just change what the Extension download installs? Seems like a really easy tweak to the installer to get box 2 in people's hands this week still.

And to confirm, can we still buy/upgrade Box 3 for 2013 from Orbaz?
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Old 08 August 2012   #124
Originally Posted by daniel77: Great news. I cheer swift action in the matter. I still don't understand the thought behind the suit and box 3 though. You should make sure that there is a data reader node available so box 3 users can write operators for people to use. Not completely sure how it works though.


orbaz Box 3 have ability to save operators and you never go to suboperators level of it. So this i think will be the same.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #125
Originally Posted by Blazer: Is it not simple enough to just change what the Extension download installs? Seems like a really easy tweak to the installer to get box 2 in people's hands this week still.

And to confirm, can we still buy/upgrade Box 3 for 2013 from Orbaz?


Nothing is simple in a product that has 1M active users worldwide and is localized in 5 languages.

As far as I know, Orbaz is offering Box2/3 still. You really have to work through Orbaz on that.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #126
Partial good news for those still using it.

I already have Box 2, so it ultimately makes no odds to me, and the two-tier ECS thing still puts me off renewing subscription.

Even if Box 2 and 3 were bundled I doubt I would have renewed, it's still bundling old software and it's not enough after all this waiting.

I know Oleg is working on new things, and best of luck to him, but it's time to move on for me.

Thanks anyway

- Steve
 
Old 08 August 2012   #127
Well that is good news for users who don't already own box 2. I hope the massive uproar also causes second thoughts about such decisions.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #128
Originally Posted by kenpimentel: Nothing is simple in a product that has 1M active users worldwide and is localized in 5 languages.


"Relatively simple?"

It just doesn't seem like something that needs anything more than changing the rule as to how it installs.

Also, I am appreciative that you are doing the right thing on Box 2, but honestly, you might as well also do Box 3. It still just makes sense to have this all be part of Max and not have weird confusion, tiers, schemes, etc'. Hopefully by the time the Extensions change you also change it to include Box 3
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Old 08 August 2012   #129
Originally Posted by J-Bond: But not for those who have a Box2 from orbaz and subscription


I think it is. I personally own box2 and box3 from orbaz as does the company where I work...and we use them daily. Getting mParticles in place of as is Box2 is good news to me
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Old 08 August 2012   #130
Sorry that's not what I want to hear.

It's simple - 1 Max subscription benefit for everyone that pays Max subscription, no half measures. What's so difficult about that?

There is still an extension (box 3) that my subscription won't buy me. I expect a subscription to Max to keep my copy of Max up to date - it appears that my subscription is no longer good enough.

Think again.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #131
Originally Posted by garryclarke: ...it appears that my subscription is no longer good enough.



well actually, ECS alone is not enough either...you need to be on subscription for ECS

But, unless you are a pretty mathematically oriented person, box3 is not as easy tool. It doesnt really come with a lot of ready to go operators. You need to build them within the Data Op and in my experience, a lot of artists either don't want to do this, or simply can't. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge proponent of this tool and encourage all that I can to give it a try....but even with experienced fx artists many don't take it too far. If Autodesk wants a 'higher end' tier of max that costs more, this is a lot better way to go than putting the much simpler and more useful to most, box2 out of the standard max users reach. While it may not be the victory we all wanted, it is still a good one. Thanks again Ken
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Old 08 August 2012   #132
I'm pretty happy with that, even if there is a bit of a wait. Box2 is a fantastic addition for fx users. Thanks for the extra info Ken.
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Old 08 August 2012   #133
Originally Posted by charleyc: But, unless you are a pretty mathematically oriented person, box3 is not as easy tool. It doesnt really come with a lot of ready to go operators. You need to build them within the Data Op and in my experience, a lot of artists either don't want to do this, or simply can't.


I'm not complaining of not getting Box3 as I probably wont use it. Just pointing out the decision to leave it bundled with mudbox and sketchbook is even more puzzling now.

Are there people out there that would use a mathematically intense particle plugin as that then hop over to sketchbook or mudbox? Who are these people?

To me it sounds like it would make a very interesting and unique story of a single math genius in some far away village that solved a 100 year old unsolved math problem yet was raised by artists down the road from the local theater.

It seems like users of vanilla max would be 99% more likely to make use of it than someone on a suite.

Last edited by BigPixolin : 08 August 2012 at 01:06 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #134
Looks like Autodesk has listened to the userbase. They've made a compromise, and did so rather quickly. Box #2 will be a great addition to the subscription users and a good incentive to subscribe. Win, win. Box #3 might not "fit" within the ECS package, but the people who can actually use Box #3 is the minority. Most people will not miss Box #3. As an ECS customer, if I need Box #3 functionality, I'll probably just pull the job off with ICE in Softimage because that's what I'm familiar with anyway.

It's great that everyone voiced their opinion. Equally great that Autodesk listened and Ken didn't ignore this thread. Victory for the users, now we can all sleep tonight, right?
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Last edited by Charkins : 08 August 2012 at 01:02 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #135
Originally Posted by BigPixolin: Are there people out there that would use a mathematically intense particle plugin as that then hop over to sketchbook or mudbox? Who are these people?


I don't know about you, but I always model in Mudbox with Pflow Box #3. First you setup a slab of raw geometry, then shoot particles at it until your sculpture has eroded into its final form.

Not to mention the hours of fun and laughter that come from playing with Pflow Box #2 in Motionbuilder. Shooting particle rigidbodies at a character's feet and watching him dance will never get old!

Shipping the pflow toolboxes with Mudbox and Motionbuilder is the best business decision Autodesk has ever made.
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