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Old 08-07-2012, 08:01 PM   #106
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Seems to me there's a few things going on:

- Can we still use the software we still use? See "will be able to get Boxen for 2013"

- Is a subscription worth it? It's a gamble. They try to toss in some stuff at half-year to make it fun/sweeten the deal. But isn't the real deal with a subscription to keep the cost of upgrades down? ISTR paying $1300 or more for an upgrade. So $400 (is it?) seems a much more manageable number... look, this is an old discussion, I shouldn't have to have it and if you are on sub you should have already had it. "Waaa, my deal sweetener isn't as sweet as I'd hoped. I'ma quit you." Whatever.

- And the one which I think is most important and most legit: We were told "buy subscription in order to keep up to date with the latest releases." Well, there's a latest release and people on subscription are claiming they don't have it. This needs to be addressed on two fronts - legally, fraud, false advertising, actual content of actual contracts, that sort of thing; perception, who cares what the contracts say, people are feeling dicked around and I'd say with cause. Or was it announced when the suites (which I too ignored because I don't like and/or use the other software) came out "Buy a suite in order to seriously keep more up to date with the more latest more releases than the usual up to date latest release"?

- And a fourth note: You can only say "we aren't allowed to say anything" for so long. This is software, we weren't all born yesterday. There's a term we used to use that the flood of new users since the beginnings of the web have pushed aside. It needs to come back into general use. Vaporware. See also this thing about this boy who cried wolf. Remember, there really was a real actual wolf (really frickin' awesome piece of software) at the end of the story, but nobody bought it.

P.S. - Yes, I understand I simplified. That was my intent. No, I have no interest in refining the details to suit you.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:02 PM   #107
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We don't need to know future plans, the issue is with what's already happened.

People basically paid for a subscription with the expectation they would receive updates like these, and now they're unable to get a feature they could use unless they spend extra money for programs they don't need.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:21 PM   #108
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This is the fourth most viewed thread in only one day, that says a lot, I hope the message come across.

I understand that we don't have guarantees for subscription advantage packs, but when one gets released for a creation suite and not for the actual software you are subscribed to then that leaves a bad taste.

Plus particles are part of a standard cg toolset, doesn't matter if it is vfx, gaming, visualisation or design. Same for box3, a more advanced user can do many things with it non related to visual fx.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:37 PM   #109
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I am also very confused with this decision. Making Box 2 and 3 available to all max users would be to keep customers on the Autodesk side. It seems that very few companies go for a suit simply because 3d programs are massively complex. Learning one of them and building a pipe around that is more than many can handle. Adding multiple 3d programs into a small work force is simply not an option and would only over complicate things. That is why owning a suit is pointless for most people.

I know for a fact that the team is working hard and try to make 3ds as good as it can be. It seems this is a decision from top management who has no idea on how things work in real production life. I mean if you already have access and knowledge to maya/xsi you have no need for the upgrade.

Please Autodesk move away from this stupid suit path.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:53 PM   #110
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I think this just highlights the bad decisions coming our way. I will bet my bottom dollar 3ds max is going to fall back in rank over the next few years of releases like 2013 and decisions like this. They certainly aren't going to get ahead on this course.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:55 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymarcher
I understand that we don't have guarantees for subscription advantage packs,


Why not?
This is what I purchased.

Quote:
Subscription is the most cost-effective way to keep your
Autodesk software up-to-date with access to the latest software
releases and product enhancements. This helps you ensure that
you always have the newest technology and design tools.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:00 PM   #112
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Just to put this in some other perspective: Softimage users didn't "get" anything as a Subscription Benefit this time around. But wait, that's basically still the same perspective, come to think of it...
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:08 PM   #113
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I'm more of a silent type of user, but that's really the last straw! I've waited years for an PFlow-update like this (btw I too use max-Design) and now you're telling me that my yearly subscription money is'nt enough and I've to pay thousands more for software I'll never use to get this update???

I do appreciate your attempt to keep this thread professional, Ken, but this decision could'nt be more wrong and a lot of lacking content-marketing blah does'nt make this better, if not even worse!

Best regards
Nupsi

P.s. Please excuse my poor english
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:35 PM   #114
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I'll wait a few days for sure to see what happens, but if all we get in the way of 'enhancements' for our subscription money is a $50 cache plugin, we are off subscription permanently. It might cost us more to upgrade, but also leaves our options open to other software...
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:39 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
I'll wait a few days for sure to see what happens, but if all we get in the way of 'enhancements' for our subscription money is a $50 cache plugin, we are off subscription permanently. It might cost us more to upgrade, but also leaves our options open to other software...


Same here. I had dialed our re-seller then decided I will let the dust settle for a day.
I am calling tomorrow to fill him in on my complaint, stop further payments/billings on the subscription and find out some options how on long I can let it go before I am unable to re-new if necessary.
If when 2014 is announced and it has nothing but a egg spline update and some fixes like 2013, I am out and not even looking back.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:47 PM   #116
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I've received approval (from many levels in the organization) to state the following:

Autodesk has heard the concerns of customers and has decided that current subscription users of 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design (along with users of suites that contain those products) will receive the Box2 extension (in addition to what they can already download) no later than October 2012. We will release more information about the change in the coming weeks and will update our existing marketing materials to reflect this change when it happens.

We will continue to make available the combination of Box2 and Box3 ONLY to ECS subscription customers. If you want Box3 from Autodesk, then you’ll need to be an ECS subscription customer to get it.

Enjoy!
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:47 PM   #117
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this update still worries me -
i.e another branch of max - one that gets the good updates (ECS) and us regular max users that dont need ECS get the leftovers.... where does it stop?
all the good features in ECS and we get the BASIC addons -

it has me considering just leaving max as i am NEVER going to buy the ECS as i simply dont have need for it and i am not going to buy it to make max "complete"

just to be sure i am correct ken can you answer this - > will standard 3ds max 2014 have box3 or is this going to be another branch in 3ds max with ECS max 2014 having box2 & box3 and standard max only having box2 (or neither)?

Last edited by monoGana : 08-07-2012 at 09:56 PM. Reason: update
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:54 PM   #118
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I think that is very cool news Ken. Thank you.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:57 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpimentel
I've received approval (from many levels in the organization) to state the following:

Autodesk has heard the concerns of customers and has decided that current subscription users of 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design (along with users of suites that contain those products) will receive the Box2 extension (in addition to what they can already download) no later than October 2012. We will release more information about the change in the coming weeks and will update our existing marketing materials to reflect this change when it happens.

We will continue to make available the combination of Box2 and Box3 ONLY to ECS subscription customers. If you want Box3 from Autodesk, then you’ll need to be an ECS subscription customer to get it.

Enjoy!


First, Thanks for the quick decision. Honestly I did not expect that we would get the desicion this fast.

If you provide Box2 and read only Box3 for all standard 3ds max users. That would be enough(it may not perfect).
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charleyc
I think that is very cool news Ken. Thank you.


But not for those who have a Box2 from orbaz and subscription

Last edited by J-Bond : 08-07-2012 at 10:01 PM.
 
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