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Old 08-07-2012, 08:06 AM   #16
Steve Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBoscacci
Should be interesting at the Autodesk booth at SIGGRAPH tomorrow.


Ken, if you think that will satisfy 99% of users you are on another planet.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Green
Ken, if you think that will satisfy 99% of users you are on another planet.

What? I'm not Ken. I'm saying I think there are going to be some irate people at SIGGRAPH that they are going to deal with face-to-face including myself.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:21 AM   #18
Steve Green
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I don't normally reply to my own posts, but this makes me absolutely livid, and it will at least get my blood-pressure down.

I already bought Maya way back and didn't really get on with it.

I also bought Mudbox, but found I got much more value out of Zbrush, despite its wacky interface, and never upgraded it when Autodesk bought it.

I swore blind I wouldn't buy into another Autodesk application after we were dicked around with combustion, this feels like the same kind of stunt you played with Toxik.

I have no use for motionbuilder, and am not at all interested in sticking all my eggs in one basket that Autodesk can dictate what they do with.

If it's a choice between having to 'upgrade' to a creation suite to get these, or C4D, it's a no-brainer.

It's Oleg I feel sorry for, because after all that hard work I imagine it's not going to be pleasant to have this kind of decision dictated from higher up in Autodesk.

I really hope you change you mind - I was wavering about bothering with a subscription renewal, but this batshit-insane nonsense from Autodesk made that one up for me, so thanks for that at least.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:23 AM   #19
Steve Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBoscacci
What? I'm not Ken. I'm saying I think there are going to be some irate people at SIGGRAPH that they are going to deal with face-to-face including myself.


Sorry, it's about a comment made by Ken earlier on in another thread, that they thought they had a solution that would work for 99% of users. I'm sure he's going to be reading this.

It wasn't directed at you.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 08:49 AM   #20
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WTF do Autodesk think they're playing at?

I'd thought I'd put up with enough sh*t with all the bugs caused by the 1 year product cycle and the massive hike in subscription prices etc etc. I still have Max 2012 & 2013 sat on a shelf unused cos they either don't work properly or I can't get up to date plug-ins (4 product updates already for Max 2013, why not wait the extra 6 months and release something that works).

But this latest stunt really takes the p*ss. Autodesk obviously have a very low opinion of it's customers, the people that pay their wages. I'm on subscription, I don't have a creation suite as I have ABSOLUTLEY NO USE for the bundled software. If Autodesk think they can sell me a load of unwanted software they can think again.

I can't express how angry this is making me.

As Bradley Wiggins put it in a recent press conference "c***s"
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:06 AM   #21
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We don't know if this will extend to Max 2014, or if this is just applies to the subscription period, because 'Autodesk can't announce futurezzzzz'

My instinct is that is their intention, but we don't know for certain and it seems like a dumb move to cause all this grief for nothing.

Or maybe it was a finger in the air thing.

A finger that is going to be covered in shit by the end of it...
 
Old 08-07-2012, 10:19 AM   #22
Steve Green
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An update.

Oleg has said there will be 2013 updates for Box#2 and Box#3 shortly.

http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3654
 
Old 08-07-2012, 10:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Green
We don't know if this will extend to Max 2014, or if this is just applies to the subscription period, because 'Autodesk can't announce futurezzzzz'

My instinct is that is their intention, but we don't know for certain and it seems like a dumb move to cause all this grief for nothing.

Or maybe it was a finger in the air thing.

A finger that is going to be covered in shit by the end of it...


Hehe - i can't wait reading something like:

Quote:
"Due to negligible conversion rates from 3ds Max/3ds Max Design to 3ds Max Creation Suite after we announced the Particle Flow Extension SAP, and due to our extensive focus group testing and market research on that matter, we clearly can say, it was the right decision to release the Extension for Suites only.
The numbers are not lying: 3ds Max/3ds Max Design users are quite happy and satisfied with the VERSATILE™ Particleflow Toolset, 3ds Max/3ds Max Design provides. And at the same time we served the more advanced needs of the 1% of the userbase using 3ds Max/3ds Max Design in the non-Arch/Viz segment"

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Old 08-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #24
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I usually take a step back when there's a quick reaction to a change in software/hardware - people get very passionate, lose their sense of perspective until the dust settles.

I've tried to look at this decision objectively but I can't. There's absolutely no way I can see this as anything other than a huge 'F**k you' to the majority of 3ds Max's user base.

Quote:
The Autodesk Subscription program helps you get the most out of your Autodesk software. For an annual fee, Subscription customers get convenient access to:


  • Software Upgrades—Stay current with the latest product releases
Limiting new features to those who have only bought the Creation Suite is not only insulting to everyone who bought into the subscription model, it renders the above statement completely false.

I definitely want to hear the official reasoning behind this decision. To me all it is doing is forcing those to who want advances & development in their software to spend even more on additional software they do not want/need.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:43 AM   #25
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Wow, just wow. I really wouldn't want to be the person having to defend this decision at Siggraph.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 10:56 AM   #26
Steve Green
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Please someone ask them about it and video the response, it might make it at least partially worthwhile.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 11:12 AM   #27
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Adesk gone mad

Can't but fully agree with you guys on this one - I was appalled at the subs increase - lets all try putting our prices up by 30% see what our customers say. To follow this with a SAP that's of such limited use is madness. Now if they had bundled all of the pflow stuff and Gepetto with Max - yeah we're getting something more useful (as long as they added extra content over the free version)

I get really frustrated when things like composite are bundled but then left for dead - this is NO benefit to users, why waste our time learning to operate, and creating a workflow if the guys don't develop the software? Even more frustrating than not getting the bloody software in the first place.

I've just (yep today) renewed my subs, but am now seriously looking which direction to go in the future:-

1. Max on subs, ACAD not on subs, and maybe Revit in future (so yeah a suite) for £1000 subs a year

2. Ship all to c4d with the nice crossgrade prices they are offering

3. Drop off subs all together and buy max again once it's actually got real benefits over current version

4. Max on subs and TP?

There's only one there that sticks out as not making financial sense ;-)

To essentially downgrade a £3k package to second rate Liteware seems just crazy to me.

Last edited by jonesthesteam : 08-07-2012 at 11:15 AM.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 11:23 AM   #28
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Oleg just wrote on his forum, that the Subscription Extension download works in "read only" mode for non-Suite users. That means you can still load and render those Max scenes wich are using the extensions, but you have no access to the UI or the parameters of those operators....
..

Quote:
BTW, no need to get a read-only version of Box2/Box3 from Orbaz for 3ds Max 2013. Now you just need to install the subscription extension - it works like the read-only for Box2 / Box3.

It means that you can do your work with the Boxes, bake the simulation for Box2, and send it out for rendering to a 3rd party render farm business, if the render farm in question has installed the subscription extension for Max 2013.

Thanks,
Oleg B.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:26 PM   #29
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So is this some kind of new policy, to not release updates to people with just the normal subscription? Does this mean that if a Subscription Advantage Pack comes out, I won't be able to get that either?
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:30 PM   #30
Steve Green
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Who knows?

I expect when the US wakes up and Autodesk sees the furore we may get a comment, or it may be a 'we can't comment on future plans'
 
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