2013 extension announcement...rant

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  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by coldside-digital: Ahh but you see, that isn't possible. They can't tell us anything about any of the wonderful and amazing plans they have for the future, so we just have to wait and trust them. Of course, it will be fantastic, because they have the data that says so! Just like the data that said this whole debacle was a good idea...

Ah hah, so like a year from now we'll be like, "Ohhh that's why you did that? Thanks Autodesk!"
  08 August 2012
wow ...and after the incredible and useful egg spline granted by Autodesk commendable...we need see also that...
  08 August 2012

Sorry if I made you feel like the Che Guevara of this thread - I just can feel your pain and it disgusts me so much to see a once great and vanguard software like 3dsMax fall to these absurd decisions!

There's no good explanation for their move - you see this by Ken's answer. With all respect, he's trying to stop a fire he didn't start by distracting us saying "you're not losing anything" or "we're still giving you stuff, why so much anger?" (first was the cache and later box#2).

But we're LOSING things, yes! First our sweaty money and second market space to other softwares! If C4D or Houdini had such momentum based only on the qualities of their software I wouldn't complain, but a large part of their success is because Max users are STUCK with vanilla Particle Flow since Max 5! At that time it was the epitome of particles systems but the development stood still since! If the pace was kept we wouldn't be like starving children begging for box #2, we would be seeing the dawn of box #10 or whatever! AD just had to keep the pace, dammit! But no, the dollars are coming in why do anything about it?

Lastly, we're losing other small, overlooked, unquantifiable, corny things. We're losing our faith in Max. We're losing the pride we once had. We are losing the passion for this software. We can no longer brag for using 3dsMax without sounding outdated, rigid and limited.

People should be sad... and angry! Make and occupy AD booth at Siggraph and ask them the awkward questions. We should all make calls to our resellers, post here, tweet about this, make AD ashamed of their practice.

As Steve pointed, maybe this is for the best, to move forward. Maybe Autodesk needs to fall so it sees that they are making softwares to US, not to the shareholders, WE are the ones they should please in the first place and WE are the ones who pay for it!

Every year, after a new version of Max is released, I say to myself: "What about that old bug? And why is that feature incomplete? Why did they took that feature out? Maya is getting this, XSI that, C4D has this, houdini can do that, blah blah blah". And finally I think: "Well, maybe next year they will sort this out. Next version of Max will rock!". I've been doing this for years, how many of you too?
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by davius: @Steve

I've been doing this for years, how many of you too?

I couldn't agree with you more.

EDIT: Felt kinda bad for what I posted.

Last edited by 24-Bit Voxel : 08 August 2012 at 03:32 AM.
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by kenpimentel: Nothing is simple in a product that has 1M active users worldwide and is localized in 5 languages.

As far as I know, Orbaz is offering Box2/3 still. You really have to work through Orbaz on that.

What's the number of users got to do with it? If anything, that SHOULD make it easier, Ken. You're not hand delivering the software are you?

With 1 million users, paying ~$600 yearly, you should be able to support THOUSANDS of very good developers. That's $600 million per year in income, not counting the initial purchase price of the software which is about $4k. Not counting the substantial bloat and overhead which must exist at Autodesk, that would support 3000 developers at an average salary of $200k per year.

The poor quality of releases and the short list of incomplete features in each new version of Max, I just don't see it.

Clearly Max is a cash cow, and this subscription fiasco was a test of just how hard Autodesk can milk their customers before they protest.
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by 24-Bit Voxel: (...)

I'm a little shocked at how quickly they backpedaled from this thread, but even more shocked that they assumed this half baked plan would make 99% of users happy.

I feel this latest move is simply parasitic. The bean counters over there should be ashamed, and if the quickness of this changing in just a day or two shows they *knew* it was a douchey thing to do. They just wanted to test the waters.

You know what else lives in water and sucks the life out of you?

That 99% story is a joke! A REALLY bad joke! I feel like punching my computer when I see this number!

What was in your head when you said that Ken?! Seriously?! 99% would be happy why? Because they don't use PF anyway? And why is that true? Maybe because its development is frigging frozen in time?! Man! LOADS of VFX people migrated from PF to TP simply because TP is actively developed by Cebas. Remember, TP is also available to C4D (as Vray is).

So a question, why are plugin developers caring to bring their creations to other platforms? If Max is soooooo successful as AD claims to the four winds, Cebas or Chaos shouldn't care less to C4D or the like.
  08 August 2012
So I did a little more research on Box 2 and Box 3. Yes, Box 3 is a little more nebulous as far as its feature description, and I assume has some more advanced features. And don't get me wrong, Box 2 looks great and I welcome the addition. But Autodesk is now saying that I, a subscriber of Max since version 2, who makes a living using it, has had Max work on television and film, am basically a hobbyist and don't need all these complicated, advanced features. Whereas if I ponied up and bought their Suite, then maybe I've proved I'm taking this whole 3D thing seriously and deserve these extra features?
  08 August 2012
Nice one guys,glad that Autodesk made this concession (for now). We are the 99%!


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Work:Straightface Studios

  08 August 2012
OK I confess to being a Softimage user but have been pointed to this thread and feel a lot of solidarity with you guys, we too are being screwed over by the suites - we didnt even get to head our our own unless in Japan and are just deemed a 'companion'. ha! well I just thought of a nice little slogan to accompany that rather fetching mascot of the Autodesk Business Team

Suites are for the Suits

people want to be free
  08 August 2012
@ Ken
Well, id like to say welcome back from you long sailing trip.
i hope you had a wonderful and relaxing time.
But it looks like you are back in the old treadmill again!

Regarding the extension i would say:
It may be to early to judge AD.
I scrolled down the treads and it appears, that last year the "Subscription extension pack" was released september 27th.
May be we are all furios much to early.
Perhaps end of september everthing will turn out fine.
Well that give AD a 2 month time limit of heavy activity.
I will make my judgement in the early days of october.. until then everything for me is still fine.
...i guess.
Mad,Sad and Bad to the Bone!!!
  08 August 2012
Autodesk has customers, but why does it need happy customers? It can poke us with a stick and have its way with us over a barrel and theres not a whole lot we can do about it. A decade ago we could move to Maya or XSI. Ill take my cynicism further and suggest that in the future, Autodesk should limit its extension features based on the creation suite tier (premium, ultimate, etc) without forewarning it's customers. Immediately after that, it should scrap the upgrade path from standalone to suite, forcing customers to pay the full price. The last move would be to remove mudbox, motion builder, etc from anything but the suites.

Rock on Autodesk!
  08 August 2012
I heard they were in talks to buy Houdini and Maxon, then stop production on all their 3D software and re-release Strata 3D.
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by captain brainiac: Regarding the extension i would say:
It may be to early to judge AD.
I scrolled down the treads and it appears, that last year the "Subscription extension pack" was released september 27th.
May be we are all furios much to early.
Perhaps end of september everthing will turn out fine.
Well that give AD a 2 month time limit of heavy activity.
I will make my judgement in the early days of october.. until then everything for me is still fine.
...i guess.

No, Autodesk announced what would be included in the subscription extension, which caused a huge uproar and backlash. They have since backtracked to give box2 to subscription users, while keeping box3 for ECS subscribers.

Even then, subscribers won't be receiving box2 until October due to a half-assed excuse about having to beta test it.

In the statement released by Autodesk, they admitted that they have changed their original plan due to public outcry.

The issue is, they haven't really fixed anything and are still separating the subscription holders into multiple tiers, giving box3 only to owners of additional software that has nothing to do with particle flow.

Simply the fact that they tried to get away with it in the first place, stating 99% of users would be happy with the decision shows how much Autodesk doesn't care about their customers or understand our wishes and only want our money.

I'm not on subscription and as such didn't buy 2013, but I am still disgusted. 2012 was my last purchase from Autodesk, and will remain as such.

They say the grass isn't always greener on the other side, but at least Sidefx offers outstanding support and treats their customers with respect. Houdini is the perfect avenue for myself, and the recent 50% price drop on Houdini Master makes it all that more appealing.
http://www.youtube.com/user/coldsidedigital - 3ds Max Tutorials

http://coldsidedigital.tumblr.com - 3ds Max Blog
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by KellyM: Once we get a fix we to rebuild the full package, run that through an automated test suite, update the installer, rebuild the installer. From there the installer goes through a series of various install tests over multiple OSs, each in 64bit and 32bit, as well as testing deployments. All licensing must also be validated on each OS. Once all that passes QA then takes a pass over the extension and the entire 3ds Max build once the extension is installed. On a full build all features of 3ds Max get tested on every potential shipping release to be sure the rebuild did not introduce any issues elsewhere in the code. After the QA lead says its a "Go" this all starts over for the various languages.

Then the new 3ds Max and each language has to be replaced in the Suites build. So that installer needs updating then install and licensing testing on the suite. Then this starts over for each of the Suites languages.

Once the suite team gets it rebuilt we make a QA pass on it to verify all is good. This pass isn't as extensive but still takes time. Often we will then post the build to beta to get customer coverage and let it "bake" for a little.

Help and readmes must also be validated and updated as needed too.

It also takes time to rebuild the marketing communications for 3ds Max and the Suites so that we donít post something without the proper supporting info. That can take weeks alone.

At that rate, I'll never see the fruits of XBR in my lifetime...
(Merely 20 years to go till retirement )

Last edited by vlad : 08 August 2012 at 02:35 AM.
  08 August 2012
I don't think that 3ds max will ever see your/our retirement, vlad, because AD will have killed max long before with it's never ending greed for money. And to be honest, I'm tired of waiting, tired of just getting mainly old third party-plugins, tired of all the bugs that never got fixed, tired of being jealous seeing all the cool updates C4D, Houdini and Modo-Users get and I'm tired of paying for nothing every year!

Best regards

P.S.: Please excuse my poor english
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