2013 extension announcement...rant

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08 August 2012   #136
Originally Posted by ivanisavich: Shipping the pflow toolboxes with Mudbox and Motionbuilder is the best business decision Autodesk has ever made.


yeah....maybe it's a Signs......2012

 
Old 08 August 2012   #137
Originally Posted by ivanisavich: I don't know about you, but I always model in Mudbox with Pflow Box #3. First you setup a slab of raw geometry, then shoot particles at it until your sculpture has eroded into its final form.

Not to mention the hours of fun and laughter that come from playing with Pflow Box #2 in Motionbuilder. Shooting particle rigidbodies at a character's feet and watching him dance will never get old!

Shipping the pflow toolboxes with Mudbox and Motionbuilder is the best business decision Autodesk has ever made.


Nice one, Tyson.
__________________
Daniel Broadway 2013 Compositor Reel

Vimeo Videos
Daniel Broadway

 
Old 08 August 2012   #138
The patients are running the asylum over there at AD, that much is clear.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #139
The best way to make your point to Autodesk is to hit them where it hurts the most. Don't renew your annual subs when you have the opportunity.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #140
Originally Posted by jonesthesteam:
2. Ship all to c4d with the nice crossgrade prices they are offering






Is it really nice prices? I've checked on their shop and you only get a 100 or 200 dollars saving comparing to a fresh complete purchase.
I have another question because I'm looking at sidegrading to c4d also, do you have to give up you actual copy of max if you do so?
 
Old 08 August 2012   #141
The new features introduced in the SAP have always been made available to all Max users in the next full release. Is that still going to be the case or will there now be a new ECS tier of Max that will have features only available to ECS users? If it's the former then giving suite subscribers a more substantial SAP than Max subscribers is annoying but liveable. If it's the latter that's disconcerting to say the least.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #142
Angry

Its a small step in the right direction, but this does not change the fact that there are now two classes of max-users and those who not need motionbuilder and mudbox are 2nd class-users. And if we wont show AD that this is just unacceptable, than we can be pretty sure that this is how it will be from now on.

And Im not even sure that this very fast drawback from AD, giving us Box2, wasnt planned before they even published the news. Thats how business works, isnt it?! You push things over the edge on purpose, waiting for everybody to complain, then drawing back a little and finally got what your intention was to get: Initiating a two classes-system without making people too angry! Because now almost everybody seems to be happy that theyll also get Box2 - ignoring the fact that they are still 2nd class-users.


Im really a patient customer, willing to wait and hoping the best, but if AD keeps going down this road, than without me! I payed good money for 3ds max and still paying every year my subscription and Im not willing to pay anymore just to be able to use all features.

Best regards
Nupsi

P.S.: Please excuse my poor english
 
Old 08 August 2012   #143
Originally Posted by charleyc: well actually, ECS alone is not enough either...you need to be on subscription for ECS

But, unless you are a pretty mathematically oriented person, box3 is not as easy tool. It doesnt really come with a lot of ready to go operators. You need to build them within the Data Op and in my experience, a lot of artists either don't want to do this, or simply can't. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge proponent of this tool and encourage all that I can to give it a try....but even with experienced fx artists many don't take it too far. If Autodesk wants a 'higher end' tier of max that costs more, this is a lot better way to go than putting the much simpler and more useful to most, box2 out of the standard max users reach. While it may not be the victory we all wanted, it is still a good one. Thanks again Ken



I totaly agree with you but that is not the point. The point is that we now have a 2 level subscription system with Max plugins that are only available in a very expensive multi-application package. Autodesk are still keeping things from us unless we pay for unwanted software.

They've offered us a few more goodies (the whole of box 2) but we're still not getting the full benefit of a subscription, nothing has really changed.

What happens next time when the plugin that Max Subscription users can't get is something more useful?
 
Old 08 August 2012   #144
people just remember that in 2014 you wont have box3 either - or the next feautre they decide to hold hostage

the thing that bothers me is that they could slide any feature into this tier system ( maxscript is not ECS only, or an update to fix curve editor speed is ECS only )

and now im paying more than i used to for subscription

for their money ECS users get
3ds max updates
mudbox builder updates
motion builder updates
sketchbook updates

standard 3ds max users get
3ds max partial updates.... wtf?

and yet we will be paying more in subscription each year.........?

i know motion builder and mudbox may not have met your sales expectations but you cannot force me to buy them by saying i cannot have full max with out them.

and dont for a second think that all new development time wont be spent only to sell this new "higher" tier of 3ds max, all good new feature will be put in this ESC tier, (sub)standard 3ds max users are going to see very little in the future i think...

we are getting screwed here.....

Last edited by monoGana : 08 August 2012 at 09:01 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #145
My personal view, although I can't see how they can be disputed really.

Autodesk abandoned Particle Flow development, and Oleg filled the gap. They bundled Box 1 after he developed it, and all we've had are presets developed by Allan Mackay.

Now they are bundling old plugins from this time (Box 3 was released end of 2005, Box 2 is a little over 3 years old)

Particle users frustrated by the lack of development would have already bought one or other of these, although Box 2 was the most commercial of the two, unless you were a hardcore particle user.

They are limiting a 5-year old plugin to those on another tier, and are unable to disclose what will happen in 2014.

Subscriptions are going up.

Let's look at Autodesk's previous attempts to squeeze users.

The combustion price jacked up past the price of Max killed it, and it's expensive replacement Toxik, relegated to being bundled with Max and Maya and pretty much stagnant development-wise.

And we're supposed to be grateful for this?
 
Old 08 August 2012   #146
Originally Posted by Steve Green: My personal view, although I can't see how they can be disputed really.
...
And we're supposed to be grateful for this?

I totally agree with you!
 
Old 08 August 2012   #147
Originally Posted by Steve Green: My personal view, although I can't see how they can be disputed really.

Autodesk abandoned Particle Flow development, and Oleg filled the gap. They bundled Box 1 after he developed it, and all we've had are presets developed by Allan Mackay.

Now they are bundling old plugins from this time (Box 3 was released end of 2005, Box 2 is a little over 3 years old)

Particle users frustrated by the lack of development would have already bought one or other of these, although Box 2 was the most commercial of the two, unless you were a hardcore particle user.

They are limiting a 5-year old plugin to those on another tier, and are unable to disclose what will happen in 2014.

Subscriptions are going up.

Let's look at Autodesk's previous attempts to squeeze users.

The combustion price jacked up past the price of Max killed it, and it's expensive replacement Toxik, relegated to being bundled with Max and Maya and pretty much stagnant development-wise.

And we're supposed to be grateful for this?


Spot on. I think AD would gain more money in the long run if they stopped acting this way. It just doesn't look good in the eyes of customers. Not least my own. I really hope AD will change their mind about this advantage pack policy.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #148
Seems they did change it?

http://www.maxunderground.com/archi...s_max_2013.html
 
Old 08 August 2012   #149
just emailed my reseller now explaining why i will not be renewing when my current subs expires

if you do not like the way this is going i urge you to do the same

mono
 
Old 08 August 2012   #150
Originally Posted by kenpimentel: Autodesk has heard the concerns of customers and has decided that current subscription users of 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design (along with users of suites that contain those products) will receive the Box2 extension (in addition to what they can already download)
Hi Ken, I first wanted to say thank you for taking criticism on board and acting so quickly to rectify the situation, it is genuinely appreciated.

Now a couple of questions

Originally Posted by kenpimentel: ... no later than October 2012.
Is there a logic behind the delay? I appreciate that you've addressed similar questions with the response "Nothing is simple in a product that has 1M active users worldwide and is localized in 5 languages." but this implies that there is some fundamental difference between the ECS and standard versions of 3ds Max 2013?

Originally Posted by kenpimentel: We will continue to make available the combination of Box2 and Box3 ONLY to ECS subscription customers. If you want Box3 from Autodesk, then youll need to be an ECS subscription customer to get it.
Why? This still results in a two-tier system and (despite the disparate complaints from different parties in this thread) this is surely the key issue?
__________________
SKETCHBOOK
MDI
moonjam.com
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.