Problem with Physique Bones Rigging

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  04 April 2018
Problem with Physique Bones Rigging

Hello everyone! I'm quite a beginner to MAX and Rigging in general so I apologize for any ridiculous thing I say and/or any issues with my rig! I am also new to these forums so I apologize if I am posting in the wrong section and if I titled this wrong as I don't know exactly how to name this!

I'm currently working on rigging a model for a fan project on a game I currently play that utilizes an older game engine which supports only Physique. So far, I've made good progress but I'm at a loss when it comes to using my rigged model because of something related to the physique & bone hierarchy. I am also limited to 3DS Max 9 because the script I use requires the IPhysique.gup which I found only goes up to this version but I can still use the latest versions of MAX and export into 9 if needed then export with a script.

Using a public tool released by the developers of the game, I am able to preview my model and my rig which then allows me to try and keep my rig as close as possible to the original skeleton but I have ran into quite a problem which I been at for months trying to figure out.

Pardon if my explanation is confusing but here's where my problem starts:
So the original models got their bone groups looking like this -

If you look at the above, it's like the Base has two bones (A) linked to it which then extends out the other bones in the hierarchy, I am assuming these two bones are actually two parents (or in a way, child) bones to the Physique. Both of these bones (A) are both located at [0,0,0]. The first bone (A) is the legs whereas the second bone (A) is the torso and both are independent from one another(which means they are not linked in any way or form). The modelers decided to split half of the body strangely enough.

But in my rig, no matter what I do I cannot reproduce that and instead I am forced to link everything to Bone01(which is the first bone that starts on [0,0,0]) instead:

The 3rd [P] under the 1st [A] is actually what's suppose to be the second [A] bone but as mentioned above, I cannot figure it out for the love of my life.

Here's how the skeleton looks in 3DS Max(I know it looks weird, the game modelers went with a really odd structure of the human skeleton
and I had to place many nubs to be able to skin it correctly
since I lack the knowledge to do it the 'right' way) -
[img width=310,height=286][/img]
Here's how the original rig looks in the Tool(my version is the exact same, asides from that grouping thing) -
[img width=203,height=225][/img]
The body splits at the pelvis bone with the two bone groups that as I mentioned above, each start at [0, 0, 0] with one covering the legs, and the other covering the torso and both work independently from one another(not exactly sure why they did it like this though.., it's just how it does). If I try to link the bones together, it ends up messing up with any animation (frames) in the game which is a major thorn on my side. If I export ONLY with the leg bones, the animations work fine for the legs but not the torso and vise-versa.

I am hoping if anyone has got any ideas how to replicate exactly what the original model does? Perhaps I am missing some important information or something I can do to make that possible with Physique? I've read around the internet a lot about the Physique Modifier and seen many videos but none answer my question so I resorted to asking a community for help.

I've tried Splines, Groups, Solvers, and all that stuff and much more which I can't recall and linking doesn't get the job done how I need it to. It's very confusing to me because I cannot simply just initialize two bones to the same Physique and it has just frustrated me trying to figure it out. I'd use Skin if I can but sadly I cannot.

I appreciate you reading this and hope you all have a fantastic day! =)

Last edited by Kizuyo : 04 April 2018 at 06:39 PM.
  04 April 2018
What's the game / game engine? You might have more luck if you find people who worked with it before. Maybe try the Polycount forums.

I'm not sure what's going on, but have you tried linking both A bones to the P Base, initializing Physique and later unlinking the bones (if they are truly supposed to be separated)? You can also add floating bones.

"If you look closely, it's like the Physique (which I assume is the Base) " Physique is just a modifier. You need to have a helper or bone object as base.

Your images aren't showing up, btw. but the links work.
  04 April 2018
Thanks for the reply! The game is Grand Chase, not so sure on the engine though, since it's an old 2003 game.

But I can't believe it but this actually worked -
Originally Posted by Noren: I'm not sure what's going on, but have you tried linking both A bones to the P Base, initializing Physique and later unlinking the bones (if
they are truly supposed to be separated)? You can also add floating
I simply unlinked the bones after I initialized the Physique and it did exactly what the original rig did!

I don't know why that method worked or why I never tried it in the first place, but thank you so, so, so, much!
  04 April 2018
Well, it was worth a shot. Glad it worked!
  04 April 2018
Physique should be one uses it anymore...sorry that wasn't very helpful was it?
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