autodesk to start new business model in october

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08 August 2013   #31
Originally Posted by parallax: No they don't. Adobe, especially the suites (and integration) are firmly in the #1 spot. In #2-#10 a whole lot of nothing and then a few small players that do single products.

Autodesk while big has some semi-equal competitors.


Maybe no photo editing competition or competition for Illustrator, but not all artists use Photoshop for drawing, and these days a lot of people don't use it for texturing since there are 3D texture painting programs. And there's definitely competition for After Effects like Nuke or even Cinema 4D for motion graphics.
The Autodesk competitors are about as much competition as those, the top 3 programs, 3ds Max, Maya, and Softimage account for a massive chunk of what the industry uses.
__________________
The Z-Axis
 
Old 08 August 2013   #32
Originally Posted by darthviper107: Maybe no photo editing competition or competition for Illustrator, but not all artists use Photoshop for drawing, and these days a lot of people don't use it for texturing since there are 3D texture painting programs. And there's definitely competition for After Effects like Nuke or even Cinema 4D for motion graphics.
The Autodesk competitors are about as much competition as those, the top 3 programs, 3ds Max, Maya, and Softimage account for a massive chunk of what the industry uses.

That's a small niche view though.
Zoom out a bit to print/layout and photo manipulation and you can see that a much, much bigger market slice is completely and utterly cornered by Adobe. The alternatives are few and far apart and not always there.

For drawing/illustration and the film and games industry though, yes, alternatives are emerging or are already available if you're willing to pay the trade offs.

There is a relatively large gap between what Adobe can do without hemorrhaging a lot of customers and what AD can do.
There's also a difference between AD global, 92.5% revenue NOT from M&E, and what M&E brings in. It's not an inconsiderable slice of the cake (M&E), but it's not going to affect global policies a fraction as much as their CAD/CAM/CAE markets.
__________________
Come, Join the Cult http://www.cultofrig.com - Rigging from First Principles
 
Old 08 August 2013   #33
Originally Posted by SheepFactory: Nobody hated Adobe for renting their software suite, they hated them for making that the only choice and forcing it on customers.


That's it in a nutshell. I hope all the software vendors learn from that and avoid putting their foot in the same trap.
__________________
I like to learn.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #34
Originally Posted by darthviper107: Maybe no photo editing competition or competition for Illustrator, but not all artists use Photoshop for drawing, and these days a lot of people don't use it for texturing since there are 3D texture painting programs


Even if they don't 'draw' in Photoshop they will still use it somewhere in the pipeline, trust me. I dare state that the amount of people doing 3D (in a professional capacity) but not Photoshop is practically zero %.

3D is no 'base skill' for lack of a better word. It is an interdisciplinary skill utilising a host of other skills & tools. You need 2D to do 3D.

The market consists of 99,9% of people using "any Adobe tool + another Adobe tool" purely based on how the market and the products operate. Ie. if you use After Effects you will use Photoshop and for a large part Illustrator (but little less so).

Leasing seperate licenses is a waste of money and will continue to be so in an age of integration, easy technology & a generalist userbase.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #35
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: That's a small niche view though.
Zoom out a bit to print/layout and photo manipulation and you can see that a much, much bigger market slice is completely and utterly cornered by Adobe. The alternatives are few and far apart and not always there.


That's right. Probably most if not all the press, magazine and general editorial markets use Photoshop for a start, and they are huge markets. The majority of photo studios, photo printing labs, commercial and wedding photographers are on Photoshop.
I think they will struggle to find acceptable alternatives to Photoshop. The paper my Dad works for eventually decided to struggle on with CS6 and other Adobe software until their questions about cloud security are answered. The bottom line is they gave up and rolled over for lack of decent options. The Autodesk situation is different and there are plenty of solid alternatives to their products.

Having said all that, Autodesk can avoid scoring an own goal once they keep the other doors open so there is plenty of choice. For both AD and Adobe, plenty of people will go the monthly rental route who otherwise wouldn't consider or be able to fork out thousands of dollars in one go.
__________________
I like to learn.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #36
Agreed. I don't know even a single person who does 3d and doesn't use Photoshop.

Originally Posted by parallax: Even if they don't 'draw' in Photoshop they will still use it somewhere in the pipeline, trust me. I dare state that the amount of people doing 3D (in a professional capacity) but not Photoshop is practically zero %.

3D is no 'base skill' for lack of a better word. It is an interdisciplinary skill utilising a host of other skills & tools. You need 2D to do 3D.

The market consists of 99,9% of people using "any Adobe tool + another Adobe tool" purely based on how the market and the products operate. Ie. if you use After Effects you will use Photoshop and for a large part Illustrator (but little less so).

Leasing seperate licenses is a waste of money and will continue to be so in an age of integration, easy technology & a generalist userbase.
__________________
http://www.vlad74.co.uk/
 
Old 08 August 2013   #37


here we go!
__________________
stee+cats

http://www.cresshead.com
youtube channel:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/cresshead

"zero stones - zero crates"
 
Old 08 August 2013   #38
Originally Posted by vlad74: Agreed. I don't know even a single person who does 3d and doesn't use Photoshop.

If we're talking individuals and small companies that might hold somewhat true in some cases (although I think Parallax made the statement entirely too boldly), it absolutely doesn't for a lot of other industries, some of them far from small or far from participating to considerable gross products.

IE: in a 300 people radius from me I can only think of a small handful that have photoshop in their day to day routine and that quantity is diminishing by the day with Mari, Krita, Painter etc.
Your average film studio has a considerably larger park of licenses for 3D DCC apps than it needs for Photoshop, and a practically non-existent one for things suh as AFX, Premiere, Illustrator and so on. Maybe a small handful in an art dept for Illustrator and an AFX or two in some of the smaller places or in previz and editorial, but that'd be it.

Game industry, same thing, only a small subset of people will use photoshop, but a good half of the staff deals with 3D and more than half that will be using a 3D DCC app day in and day out, and I don't think at this point we can consider the game industry a niche industry when it generates more liquidity and turn around than Film. It might be one for Adobe, but it's not one for the economy by any possible definition.

Also leasing licenses is far from useless, it's actually very useful for any shop with a swinging population, which is a considerable chunk of various fields in the whole media industry these days.

Nuke's temp licenses success attests to that, and more than a relevant decision making figure has perked their ears up hearing they might be able to work off a reduced permanent license park for DCC apps and only lease dynamically in times of crunch for the rest.
Dormant licenses and maintenance is a major pain in the back for a lot of CTO/CFO cross work and the ability to have no dormant licenses and expand/contract on demand is more than a bit interesting.

Sorry, the statement that Photoshop and AFX are baseline simply doesn't hold true for a good chunk of people in this forum or in many others.
__________________
Come, Join the Cult http://www.cultofrig.com - Rigging from First Principles
 
Old 08 August 2013   #39
Good info. I am glad its happening. I've been working only in advertising post-production companies and for those it still holds true, at least for the ones I have worked for.
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: If we're talking individuals and small companies that might hold somewhat true in some cases (although I think Parallax made the statement entirely too boldly), it absolutely doesn't for a lot of other industries, some of them far from small or far from participating to considerable gross products.

IE: in a 300 people radius from me I can only think of a small handful that have photoshop in their day to day routine and that quantity is diminishing by the day with Mari, Krita, Painter etc.
Your average film studio has a considerably larger park of licenses for 3D DCC apps than it needs for Photoshop, and a practically non-existent one for things suh as AFX, Premiere, Illustrator and so on. Maybe a small handful in an art dept for Illustrator and an AFX or two in some of the smaller places or in previz and editorial, but that'd be it.

Game industry, same thing, only a small subset of people will use photoshop, but a good half of the staff deals with 3D and more than half that will be using a 3D DCC app day in and day out, and I don't think at this point we can consider the game industry a niche industry when it generates more liquidity and turn around than Film. It might be one for Adobe, but it's not one for the economy by any possible definition.

Also leasing licenses is far from useless, it's actually very useful for any shop with a swinging population, which is a considerable chunk of various fields in the whole media industry these days.

Nuke's temp licenses success attests to that, and more than a relevant decision making figure has perked their ears up hearing they might be able to work off a reduced permanent license park for DCC apps and only lease dynamically in times of crunch for the rest.
Dormant licenses and maintenance is a major pain in the back for a lot of CTO/CFO cross work and the ability to have no dormant licenses and expand/contract on demand is more than a bit interesting.

Sorry, the statement that Photoshop and AFX are baseline simply doesn't hold true for a good chunk of people in this forum or in many others.
__________________
http://www.vlad74.co.uk/
 
Old 08 August 2013   #40
Quote: Quote from RichGelles :[HR] I think if autodesk is actually "looking" at adobe and their cloud subscription base ---there maybe be an opportunity to see subscription prices nearer to the lower ranges suggested here than the higher ones.

Whats the total cost of all those adobe products ? and you can rent them for a year at 49.99 dollars a month. They all add up to a pretty significant number in terms of total cost.

So who knows ---autodesk might see this as a chance to not only keep some customers but more importantly gain some ---- so is 99 possible ? for max or maya a month , sure --if they are "following" adobe's lead. [HR]


well it that turns out to be true i'll dump subscription for 3dsmax in a heart beat.

here's the thing to consider...if i miss out on subscription for longer than a year...to get back on subscription i have to pay 70% the full retail value of 3dsmax (rrp 3600) to get back on the train so to speak...if you make rental $99 then there's no requirement for subscription for me and the threat of 70% to jump back on disapears...rental gives me lower cost and more freedom to choose.

the whole idea of buying a license and subscription will be totally unpalatable at that point.
Autodesk lose their 70% fine threat to keep you on subscription.

what's the competition doing?

you can rent Houdini for $2000 a month....yeh that's right TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS a month.
the whole idea of autodesk doing Maya rental at $99 a month seems to be a fantasy when you look at that.

rumour has it that Autodesk rental will be $400 a month and will probably be only for a entertainment suite, which could be
Maya+ Motion Builder + Mudbox or looking at Nuke rental below...could actually be for just Maya.

also you can rent Nuke for 960 per 3 months which is 320 a month for an app that retails at 2998.80 inc vat
[LINK="http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/cart/item.php?product_id=900&buy_or_rent=rent"]http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/cart/item.php?product_id=900&buy_or_rent=rent[/LINK]

yeh i'd love to see the $99 a month for maya but being realistic and looking around at what's happening in the actual marketplace it simply doesn't add up. I hope i'm wrong though eh!
__________________
stee+cats

http://www.cresshead.com
youtube channel:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/cresshead

"zero stones - zero crates"

Last edited by cresshead : 08 August 2013 at 12:01 PM.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #41
Originally Posted by cresshead:
you can rent Houdini for $2000 a month....yeh that's right TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS a month.
the whole idea of autodesk doing Maya rental at $99 a month seems to be a fantasy when you look at that.


The Houdini thing might be based on old pricing and they might have to update that.

After all, you can get a houdini escape version for 2000, and houdini fx for 4500....

makes no sense to rent for 2000 if you can buy the whole thing for 4500. unless you never use it and stumble upon its needs for a small job.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #42
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: Also leasing licenses is far from useless, it's actually very useful for any shop with a swinging population, which is a considerable chunk of various fields in the whole media industry these days.

Nuke's temp licenses success attests to that, and more than a relevant decision making figure has perked their ears up hearing they might be able to work off a reduced permanent license park for DCC apps and only lease dynamically in times of crunch for the rest.
Dormant licenses and maintenance is a major pain in the back for a lot of CTO/CFO cross work and the ability to have no dormant licenses and expand/contract on demand is more than a bit interesting.

Just what I was gonna mention.
Now if they (Adobe and Autodesk) would just do away with the 'penalty models' customers could be a lot more accepting.
If they don't its always going they create resentment-I mean who is 'happy'
about paying for time they 'didn't' use the product?!

Could you imagine if car rental companies dared try that?
 
Old 08 August 2013   #43
Originally Posted by ambient-whisper: The Houdini thing might be based on old pricing and they might have to update that.

After all, you can get a houdini escape version for 2000, and houdini fx for 4500....

makes no sense to rent for 2000 if you can buy the whole thing for 4500. unless you never use it and stumble upon its needs for a small job.


it's based upon the webpage i'm looking at on august 26th 2013
__________________
stee+cats

http://www.cresshead.com
youtube channel:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/cresshead

"zero stones - zero crates"
 
Old 08 August 2013   #44
Originally Posted by circusboy: Just what I was gonna mention.
Now if they (Adobe and Autodesk) would just do away with the 'penalty models' customers could be a lot more accepting.
If they don't its always going they create resentment-I mean who is 'happy'
about paying for time they 'didn't' use the product?!

Could you imagine if car rental companies dared try that?


Or if you tried that with a client...

Yeah, you haven't given me any work for for a while, so I'm going to treble my day rate...
 
Old 08 August 2013   #45
Quote: The Houdini thing might be based on old pricing and they might have to update that.After all, you can get a houdini escape version for 2000, and houdini fx for 4500....


Houdini rental is 995 a month
Houdini fx rental is 2195 a month

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?opt...=385&Itemid=190
__________________
Heights of great men reached and kept were not attained by sudden flight, but they while their companions slept were toiling upwards in the night.
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.