BBC: Meet CG animator Paulo Machado, the man who has lived in hospital for 45 years

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by malcolmvexxed: And this moderator intimidation bullshit leigh keeps trying to pull is a joke.

Don't get me started. In the 11 years I've been coming to this site, just about all of the mods and members have been extremely nice to me. I've had nothing but pleasant dealings the likes of Roberto & Raffaele. They are among the coolest and most accommodating people I've come across in my 20 years the CG industry and nigh 40 on this blue marble. Really great guys. I'm serious. I'm well aware that I can be "strong coffee" at times. I won't deny it. They don't always agree with me, but they've done their level best to respect my opinions and my right to express them. Cool and level headed about 99% of the time. More often than not, we just agree to disagree. I appreciate that. I honestly do.

With Leigh? Professionally, I respect her. Totally. She does quality work and her work ethic is without question. She's excellent at what she does. As a moderator, all I can say is that, for better or worse, she is who she is. Sometimes, her approach can be akin to that of a bull in a china shop, so to speak. Her presence is immediately made known. No disrespect is intended. Don't get me wrong. Like I said, I do respect her, one artist to another. As a moderator, I'm put off by some of her tactics. Whatever you call it, bullying or intimidation, I'm just not a fan and I won't play into it. I won't get anywhere by fighting her. It's pointless. Not my sandbox. Not my toys. Not my rules.

Roberto... Raffaele... I'm sorry for my part in this thread. I honestly am. I don't apologize for my opinions or even having them, but I do apologize for my part in letting it get out of control. I hope that you'll accept my solemn promise to stay away from such debates again. They are fruitless and I should know better.

Cheers,
~Robert~

Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: That's really something you should take up with the site's management if it's such an issue. I can't quite see it like that, but I have an obvious bias.

Your bias is understood and duly noted. Personally, after 11 years here, I usually just steer clear. This time... Oops! Steered right into the skid. Not sure that contacting management helps if there's some unspoken "thin pixel line". In the future, I'm just gonna steer clear of the storm, as I usually do.
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The views presented herein do not necessarily represent those of my brain.

Last edited by cookepuss : 08 August 2013 at 04:14 AM.
 
  08 August 2013
There's a profund difference between "what a horrid post" and all that and

"in your usual sanctimonious idiocy"
"Your stupidity is exhausting."

Quote: You have zero issue saying I'm overaggressive but aren't sure if Leigh is because you're not in the position to judge?

No, I'm saying that because we're both mods on the website it's pointless for me to call out Leigh in public on anything.

If I have genuine issues with how she's conducting herself I can do so in private, and she can with me, and we have in the past (as well as with other mods), much like I suggested you take things up with site admins instead of opening hostilities on a thread.

If I don't have genuine issues with what she posts, and said so, you would just assume we're butt buddying mods.

If I did have genuine issues with her conduct and posted so openly, it would do the thread and the site no good at all (and my responsibility is towards the site first and foremost).

So all I said is "I'm not in a position to fairly comment on another's mod's conduct".
There is not ONE way for any of us mods to address another in public without a large number of members force-reading it into one of the three ways, and by definition it has two chances to be mis-interpreted to the one of being right, and absolutely zero to do any good. So, I don't.
Simple as that.

I thought my post was sufficiently calm, unambiguous and detailed that it would have been received as a sincere attempt to simply stop open hostilities in a forum and avoid more personal insults being thrown around, which is what it was meant to be.
Either I failed in that, or you're way too pissed off at the world to see it, I'm willing to call it a 50/50 chance either way.

With that, I'm out of here, my lunch break is over and there's only that much personal abuse I'm willing to read or receive within any given hour.
__________________
Come, Join the Cult http://www.cultofrig.com - Rigging from First Principles

Last edited by ThE_JacO : 08 August 2013 at 04:12 AM.
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: There's a profund difference between "what a horrid post" and all that and

"in your usual sanctimonious idiocy"
"Your stupidity is exhausting."


There absolutely is a huge difference, because the posts she's responding to in the first place were not remotely directed towards her. They were about the article that the thread was made for.

Quote: If I have genuine issues with how she's conducting herself I can do so in private, and she can with me, and we have in the past (as well as with other mods), much like I suggested you take things up with site admins instead of opening hostilities on a thread.

...

I thought my post was sufficiently calm, unambiguous and detailed that it would have been received as a sincere attempt to simply stop open hostilities in a forum and avoid more personal insults being thrown around, which is what it was meant to be.
Either I failed in that, or you're way too pissed off at the world to see it, I'm willing to call it a 50/50 chance either way.

With that, I'm out of here, my lunch break is over and there's only that much personal abuse I'm willing to read or receive within any given hour.


It's way more than 50/50 that the best way to stop open hostilities is to teach the people you call mods to actually act like mods and not jackasses using the forum as their personal bully pulpit the way leigh does. And no, I'm not going to back down to someone like that in this or any other setting, and it has nothing to do with "being pissed at the world" or any other slogans, I just don't see cowardice as an accomplishment.
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: No, I'm saying that because we're both mods on the website it's pointless for me to call out Leigh in public on anything.

Yeah. I once did the mod/admin thing over a period of nearly 10 years too. The whole public/private face thing isn't easy. I fully understand your position all around. You won't hear a peep from me again in this thread. I'm outta here too. (Nearly 12:30am on my side.)

Peace
~Robert~
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The views presented herein do not necessarily represent those of my brain.
 
  08 August 2013
His work seems pretty good to me. Yes even compared to an able-bodied person.

Applying the same critical standard to everyone doesn't work and in this case the main aspect of the story that I took away isn't the work itself, but that he's doing something that he enjoys - making lemonade if you will.

Originally Posted by Duke Kahanamoku: The best surfer in the world is the one having the most fun.


I don't envy his physical situation, but I do envy what he's doing.
 
  08 August 2013
Good on him dealing with the difficult (more than the average person) challenges he has to face in life and using art to help him. I think his work is okay. Practice makes perfect and I'm sure he will keep improving as we all mostly do over time.

I'm sure he himself would welcome constructive criticism like most artists would.

Not useless callous comments like "Is the bad animation forgiven/not mentioned just b/c of their sad physical state?" from the likes of Stephen Broome (malcomvexxed).
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by earlyworm: His work seems pretty good to me. Yes even compared to an able-bodied person.

Applying the same critical standard to everyone doesn't work and in this case the main aspect of the story that I took away isn't the work itself, but that he's doing something that he enjoys - making lemonade if you will.

I don't envy his physical situation, but I do envy what he's doing.


Bingo. I can't even begin to imagine how awful it'd be spending pretty much my entire life in a hospital bed. I think I'd be utterly miserable, and yet this chap has adopted such a positive outlook and has the drive to learn a difficult medium and express himself through it. He's doing something he loves and that's always something to be glad about.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by malcolmvexxed: kind of like the people mincing around in this thread saying the product quality is unimportant because he's handicapped and comparing it to the drawings of a 5 year old. That BTW is extremely insulting.


You've entirely missed the point I was making with the five year old child's drawings comment. How you could have interpreted that as a "comparison" to this man's work is something of a mystery; my comment was related to an earlier remark by cookepuss about his five year old nephew's drawings and the fact that we sometimes need to judge things by different standards, depending on the context. Which is clearly something that you don't agree with, and I can see that now, but that's why I asked.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by malcolmvexxed: There absolutely is a huge difference, because the posts she's responding to in the first place were not remotely directed towards her. They were about the article that the thread was made for.


So nobody is allowed to respond to you unless you direct your post at them? Sorry, but that's not how public discussion platforms work; don't post comments if you aren't prepared for others to respond to them.

Now please take whatever chip you're carrying on your shoulder about me out of this thread, and stick to the discussion at hand, because you are derailing this thread with your own issues. Flinging out personal insults is not okay. If you had called any other member of this site a stupid idiot, you'd have been banned immediately, but I have a reasonably thick skin so I don't care.

Any "intimidation" you see in my posts is entirely in your imagination, and really just says more about you and your attitude to discussions than anything else, since people have a tendency to assume that others are coming from the same position as them. Make of that what you will. There was nothing even vaguely aggressive about any of my posts here; not a single one of them was written in anger. The tone they should be read in is one of total and utter bewilderment at the callousness of the posts I was responding to.

Lastly, criticising the quality of animatics is more than a little bizarre. Even at Hollywood level animatics are usually very rough, at times even humorously so. So I still can't understand how you can be making judgments on the quality of this guy's work, because as far as I can see, there are no finished frames.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by malcolmvexxed: If it's NOT a politically correct sob story, can someone who speaks Portugese read the comments section and tell me what people are saying? My guess would be all the comments are about something other than the actual animation, kind of like the people mincing around in this thread saying the product quality is unimportant because he's handicapped and comparing it to the drawings of a 5 year old. That BTW is extremely insulting.

http://catarse.me/pt/leca#comments


Most people in the comments are congratulating the guy for his initiative, some comments are suggesting where he could get more money (government grants, etc...), some are praising the story (because it portraits disabled people in a different light, not just a "poor me" one) and some comments are typical Brazilian catholic praise (God is with you, etc...)

Yes, there is very little comments about the quality of the animation, but there is comments about the concept and story.

Keep in mind that is REALLY difficult to get any animation project off the ground in Brazil. Especially if you're not connected to someone in the government or some big TV network.
The fact that the guy got the money to make his own project would be already HUGE if he was just a normal Brazilian guy. The fact that he's disabled just makes it much more awesome.

Keep in mind that BBC only picked this story after it was all over Brazilian media - but the focus was never to praise him as the next Disney. The focus of the stories was always about the crowdfunding project with a curious theme and the fact that it was made by a disabled person.

I guess you never had to be on a hospital bed immobilized. I had and it's not fun, believe me. The details about this are beside the point, but I couldn't even think about work while in that situation.

And here's a guy that has to LIVE forever like this and he's making a animated series. I'm VERY, VERY impressed by his willpower and by his positive outlook in life.

Life is not a Seinfeld episode. Too much cynicism can kill your soul.
 
  08 August 2013
Context is absolutely critical in passing judgement on the quality of his work. He's doing the best he can with what he has. How many of us on this forum can say with complete honesty that we are as consistently committed? There are perfectly able-bodied people who turn out crap compared to this guy's work. Context is everything.
 
  08 August 2013
HOLD ON PEOPLE!
There is no example of his animation ANYWHERE!

(Now I'm calm)
Malcolm, at the 1:20 mark you called out, that was obviously not a 3D animation. Curious I ran the text on screen through a translator and it came out "animatic pictures, preview of what will be in 3d". So what in the world are you guys talking about? I'm not judging the guy harshly because there is nothing to judge. Wait for some results and then be fair and judge accordingly.

My issue was with your use of the phrase "sob story". I take that to mean, you should feel sorry for this person and "Oh how nice that they are doing something and not sitting around being catatonic." That is the opposite of what I see. Don't feel sorry for him because he obviously doesn't want sympathy. Its a funny thing about being bedridden, or limited in mobility. It tends to focus your attention to that which is around you. Things you can do at hand. This almost exact scenario, kid with polio, unable to walk, limited physical ability produced one of the greatest musicians in the history of the world Itzhak Pearlman. This guy may end up being amazing, who knows at this point. Again, this is a great story, not just a puff piece. This isn't "Johnny gets a trophy for participating".

Leigh, I have no beef with you, you've been helpful to me in the past and we agree in this situation. Having said that, your post came off as crazy-person harsh. I would apologize, but that's me.

Last thing I want to say. I'm reading a lot of "poor guy", "in a hospital bed", "how sad" comments. Drop that! You can't imagine it because you are not in that situation for life. I once wanted to get into acting. I have the talent for it but stupid me, I have a huge scar running from the top of my face to the bottom. Guess what, I rarely remember that I have it until someone brings it up. My autistic kids have no idea they are autistic. This is life for him, no need for sympathy. And kudos for being productive. I'll bet he was tired of being reminded of his "published author" bed mate.
__________________
HMC: Model Collection
WIP: Harris Nut House
WIP: WarCraft Troll
wyattharris.com Dig it!
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Leigh, I have no beef with you, you've been helpful to me in the past and we agree in this situation. Having said that, your post came off as crazy-person harsh. I would apologize, but that's me.


Which post? The one where I said cookepuss was being a tough guy? I stand by that. I detest tough guy attitudes, and when someone is repeatedly going on about how everyone must be judged by some high standard, without considering any sort of context, and displaying an almost total lack of empathy, then that comes off as chest-thumping tough guy to me. People who post anonymously tend to cop tough guy attitudes far more than those who don't, because they never have to face any scrutiny or consequences for what they say. It's also far too easy for anonymous people to criticise others, while hiding themselves; it's not that I think that one needs to be a master chef in order to recognise poor food, as indeed constructive critique is worth listening to regardless of the skill level of the critic, but when someone is making statements about how everyone should be judged by a certain high standard (because indeed there is no work to be judged here, so his comments were broader and more about the artist than the work), then they shouldn't let their mouths write cheques that their own butts can't cash, for lack of a better phrase. And I'm not just talking about his posts in this particular thread.

It's like the web forum equivalent of the stereotypical overbearing sports dad.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by leigh: So nobody is allowed to respond to you unless you direct your post at them? Sorry, but that's not how public discussion platforms work; don't post comments if you aren't prepared for others to respond to them.

Now please take whatever chip you're carrying on your shoulder about me out of this thread, and stick to the discussion at hand, because you are derailing this thread with your own issues. Flinging out personal insults is not okay. If you had called any other member of this site a stupid idiot, you'd have been banned immediately, but I have a reasonably thick skin so I don't care.


Uh no. Saying that I didn't even seem to have read the article is the part that establishes your stupidity, and you talking about imagined tone and nothing you posted being remotely aggressive is the funniest thing I've seen on these boards. You're either completely detached from awareness of your tone or are just a lousy liar and terrible mod, which is more likely. Feel free to going back to talking about everything except CG on a CG website. And threats of banning don't matter, this isn't important. And it wouldn't matter what the quality or level of finish was, according to you the product quality didn't even matter. As for me, a regular kickstarter, those animatics and pencil tests are how I decide what to back, as opposed to whether or not the creator has overcome something to create them. I don't look down enough on handicapped people to apply lower standards to them.
 
  08 August 2013
I think it's time you take your anger issues somewhere else.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.