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Old 08-01-2013, 12:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Am I the only person here who has no idea who Tom Hudson is?

http://www.maxunderground.com/the_history_of_3d_studio
 
Old 08-01-2013, 01:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Am I the only person here who has no idea who Tom Hudson is?


This video should sum it up for you:
http://vimeo.com/9652184
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWBell
This video should sum it up for you:
http://vimeo.com/9652184

3ds dos

Spent so many hours with my head buried in that manual on a clunky 286/386!
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:34 PM   #34
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My boss has got every 3ds / Max on the shelf except for v5 I think.

I love looking through the manuals & tut books sometimes and it's amazing to see how much has remained the same over the years haha!

But there were so many very impressive features released so early...character studio R2 must have been so groundbreaking when it came out. Footstep mode, motion mixer, moCap to footstep conversion...wow.
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Old 08-01-2013, 03:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoclypse
This. Instead of trying to fix another companies issues, they should just work or make their own product that would compete. Autodesk is what it is because it has no competition. If someone made a product that could compete directly with Max and Maya then that would force them to actually update/fix/rewrite their software. Without any incentive and now with subs they have cash rolling in no matter what.

Easier said than done. I've been there (3d software development)-probably takes five years to get a complex 3d software to a v1 release. So who finances that? You have no customers for 5 years (or more)!

And can it really hope to be end-to-end as feature rich as the Adesk products (which have well over a decade's worth of feature development each)? Unlikely. You have to employ over a decades worth of man hours
-again so not cheap-say 3-5 times the cost per year each of the big three themselves took to develop?! ouuch.

And THEN you have to convince many large companies with huge (and over a decade of dependency) pipelines to drop *everything* and switch to something new. Many of the folks in charge of these company decisions
are not hands-on users-so are going on the recommendations
of their experts advisers in residence who will likely always say 'wait-and-see what the rest of the industry does'.

I've also worked on all three Adesk products in production. And its my personal opinion as yours well that the product thats best suited to build a pipeline around is Softimage. Just about every core feature developed by the other two have been eclisped by Softimage's interpratation of that basic feature design at a later point in time (ref models, render passes, multi-mode to name but a few). But it hasn't worked. The problem is they came too late to the party and everyone had already gotten married to someone else. So then they came up with that 'ultimate feature' (ICE) and got bought instead.

History does not suggest an easy path for any new competition no matter what the pedigree. So you have to be so independently wealthy that you just don't care! And who is that these days?!
 
Old 08-01-2013, 04:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Am I the only person here who has no idea who Tom Hudson is?


One of Max's (3DStudio) original developers.

Asking him to return as a Max dev is a bit like asking the guy who invented the internet to come back and fix all its problems.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:06 PM   #37
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Thumbs up

I also support Tom's efforts.

As one of the few in the world who have created a software company then sold that to Autodesk (Mudbox), worked for Alias and then worked for Autodesk I can say from an educated outside opinion that Autodesk has serious problems. Their monopoly is really just one big reseller scam group with almost zero focus on developing new products that make users lives more simple.

One of the reasons the FX industry is in a lower profit margin status now is because the tools are 10 times more difficult to use than they should be in almost all areas. No one should need a degree to learn how to use a tool to move a puppet around or create some hair and blow stuff up on screen. We all did that when we were 3-15 years old. Bad tools cost the industry profit margins and cause good people to get laid off as well. And Autodesk has no incentive to change the status quo for the moment...

So I hope Tom gets his way if not then someone will develop what is needed and listen closely to what users need. That would help to bring back the health of the FX and Games dev business.

Dave Cardwell
 
Old 08-01-2013, 04:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWBell
But there were so many very impressive features released so early...character studio R2 must have been so groundbreaking when it came out. Footstep mode, motion mixer, moCap to footstep conversion...wow.


Apparently you never had to actually use those first-gen tools.
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Old 08-01-2013, 05:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
Unfortunately (for the user), AD could shut down the entire M&E division and it probably wouldnt put much of of dent in their global revenue numbers, which majorly come from the cad side of things.


This is true. The company I work for buys the Architecture Suite. Max and Sketchbook are little more than value added freebees. I'm the only one here who knows anything about it, and I rarely have a need for it at work.

Taking Max out wouldn't damage our operations one bit. Architects are bound to complain, but they might be using something else (like Rhino or Modo) already.

edit: I suppose my point is to verify that yes, most of AD income comes from places like the one I work at. In fact I remember reading a while back that the entertainment side of things at AD are shrinking anyway. There's a "BIM Revolution" going on in architecture/construction as well, and that's where the real money is currently.

Last edited by trancerobot : 08-01-2013 at 05:22 PM.
 
Old 08-01-2013, 05:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artbot
One of Max's (3DStudio) original developers.

Asking him to return as a Max dev is a bit like asking the guy who invented the internet to come back and fix all its problems.

Not quite. He would not be alone in this task as he wasn't when they made the first iterations of 3DS. Also he is still an active tool developer for Max and you can safely assume that the man learned a bit of new tricks. The thing is, he has an inner view of Max that very few people out there can brag to have and he practically volunteered to help improve Max.

Rebuild everything from scratch is the same as making a new software altogether and nothing would guarantee that such new app would resemble Max in anyway. This would be travel the same famous road as XSI and end up being the greatest new software with almost no user base.

Max is a great software already! It has some fundamental flaws (bugs and under developed features) that can and should be fixed and that's basically it that the whole community is calling.
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:31 PM   #41
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High end VFX is getting screwed from all directions it seem.

The economy for film is getting more strict. Studio producers are getting more insidious. Working conditions are getting worse. Outsourcing is an increasing threat. The software required to do the work is getting being greedily milked by it's owner, and progression being stifled.

Theres so much potentially great artwork that could be made with other software.
 
Old 08-01-2013, 07:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWBell
This video should sum it up for you:
http://vimeo.com/9652184


Now that was awesome to watch. Nothing quite beats a good look into the past of program development - especially for a program as complex as 3DS Max.

Its very easy to relate to the passion Tom has for 3D programming. It would be great if the original Yost group and even the more recent Max development team would write a book on the history behind this legendary piece of software. Wishful thinking, I know, but hell a lot of programmers would cry "shut up and take my money!".

I reckon Tom would be a great boost for the package, but I'm not sure if he was around for the re-write that I heard happened a few years ago - actually, I'm not sure if that actually happened or not(I've been out of the game for a while). But if so and he wasn't then, he might return to Max and find some changes he might not like. Also, he mentions a new team...what would happen to those already developing Max? Would they just get the boot? Surely their knowledge of Max's current state would be a valuable asset?

Be nice to see where this goes. Max has always been one of the top two workhorses in this field to simply be tossed away. The user base is far too great to ignore.
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthspace
I also support Tom's efforts.

As one of the few in the world who have created a software company then sold that to Autodesk (Mudbox), worked for Alias and then worked for Autodesk I can say from an educated outside opinion that Autodesk has serious problems. Their monopoly is really just one big reseller scam group with almost zero focus on developing new products that make users lives more simple.

One of the reasons the FX industry is in a lower profit margin status now is because the tools are 10 times more difficult to use than they should be in almost all areas. No one should need a degree to learn how to use a tool to move a puppet around or create some hair and blow stuff up on screen. We all did that when we were 3-15 years old. Bad tools cost the industry profit margins and cause good people to get laid off as well. And Autodesk has no incentive to change the status quo for the moment...

So I hope Tom gets his way if not then someone will develop what is needed and listen closely to what users need. That would help to bring back the health of the FX and Games dev business.

Dave Cardwell



What about start a new one or aid develop for the competition? Im sure Pixologic would not mind some helping hands And if you develop a new one please don't sell it again to AD...
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:27 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techmage
I walked from Autodesk and Windows a year ago... life is better now.

I wish more people would do the same. Trying to mend an abusive relationship is just not the ideal way to go about it I think, and in doing so and continuing to give resource to Autodesk, your holding back the progress of other companies that would probably do alot more good with your money, and have much greater potential of making your life better. I personally just walked from all Autodesk software, and any business model that required their software to function. Theres plenty of room for new businesses to be set up that can provide a good quality of life and interesting work, based on software from awesome companies, eager to be awesome to their customers and push their product forward as hard as possible.

But thats just my instinct. I don't stick around and fight over resource, I'll just go make something new when an area gets fouled.


I did the same - never been happier. Life is so much better now that I am free of AD.

Cheers,

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Old 08-02-2013, 01:23 AM   #45
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I am still sad Avid sold Softimage. I can only imagine how amazing XSI would have been by now if the original Softimage team kept developing it. Autodesk literally left that software to die.
 
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