Tom Hudson proposes Autodesk!

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Old 07 July 2013   #16
Problem is not "greedy" people. Greedy people manage.
The management situation at Autodesk is the contrary of any propose.

For example in 3dsMax after Pimentel went out came Delise, then Delise went out shortly after and another one is there, Softimage the same, Cory Mogk managed it initially then went to Daniel Testino now it is back to Cory Mogk which is btw the head of M&E and certainly in that position has the plate full, so might be another temporary situation.

I think one of the problems is the culture at Autodesk. I see Carl Bass(the CEO) when talks about M&E is always talking about Maya and i always feel that for them that is a badge of honor but not much else. Another i see is that it has more generals(managers) than soldiers.

A spin off of Media & Entertainment could be positive but i don't think it will happen until things get much worse.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #17
Personally I think the thing to do is for Max/Soft and disgruntled Maya peeps to join together to make a stand.

I think all three apps have their place as of now...but all three have issues only a ground up rewrite will fix.

I am a die hard soft guy...but if AD came up with a new product that I thought was better I would switch in heartbeat...but I don't want to switch to a program I passed over for a reason. I am sure that is true of Maya and Max users as well.

Solidarity is needed between camps to ensure our mutual survival.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #18
Quote: If any of you haven't yet, I HIGHLY recommend reading the gargantuan comment section of the MaxUnderground page here and then proceed to give your vote towards this idea here


I have been following it since they put that link in another thread on here, i had no idea the comments would grow so much.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kabab
Want them to stand up and listen?

All the users should skip paying subs for 1 year, when they have a 8-9 figure hole in their pipeline everything will change.

Best thing is you don't have to do anything and it won't cost you a cent literally.



someone on the MU discussion said the same thing.
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Old 07 July 2013   #19
This thread/idea is just laughably naive. If anyone thinks for a moment that Autodesk product development is driven by some kind of user desire or tools wishlist, then they are gloriously and sadly mistaken.
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Old 08 August 2013   #20
So M&E is worth about 200 million a year that is no chump change i'd take a wager and say most of that revenue is from subs and a good chunk of that is from Max..

Losing that revenue for a year would be devastating it would tank their share price it would have a massive effect on figures that financial analysts examine in particular the subscription retention rate i believe that has a pretty strong impact on share price..

Want to get more pissed Audodesk across the board spends roughly 30% more on sales and marketing then R&D..

If you look at their operating expenses it breaks down like this (back of napkin figures)

50% spend on sales marketing
35% spend on R&D
15% spend on admin

So out of every $1000 you spend on subs only $350~ of that is spent on development (probably less).

Just read their public financial statements you can learn a lot http://investors.autodesk.com/phoen...1&p=irol-irhome
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Old 08 August 2013   #21
Yes, it would be a huge financial hit to ADSK, but how is it that anyone can say "We should stop paying our subscription fees - that'll show 'em!" with a straight face? How are all the businesses/DCC professionals who have ADSK tools entrenched in their pipelines supposed to simply stop using them? This is beyond ridiculous.

If Tom Hudson is such a valuable commodity, why doesn't he simply get some partners and investors and create something new that would pull users away from ADSK?
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Old 08 August 2013   #22
Originally Posted by davius: I'm by no means saying that 're stabilising the Yost Group would save Max, but it would surely change things. Maybe the best solution is to be more transparent with the roadmaps, disclosure some of the development being made. Maybe increase the development team. Maybe it's better to just shut down Max entirely, who knows?


Something definitely has to come of this. While I do think the suggestion of a return to the old revenue-only payment model and a team led by Tom Hudson would be great for Max, this Tom Hudson user voice page & Max Underground thread is also a Catalyst for change in General. Autodesk have to respond to this. As mentioned, many users are now finally on the very edge of walking away for good.

Why can't the development team share more of the roadmap and R&D directions with the userbase? Populate was a Labs project. So many of the 'sneak peek' videos have the usual 'this video is purely speculative and should not be a purchasing decision, etc, etc' disclaimers. I really think the developers could share more with the userbase without breaking any rules of a publicly traded company.


Originally Posted by Artbot: This thread/idea is just laughably naive. If anyone thinks for a moment that Autodesk product development is driven by some kind of user desire or tools wishlist, then they are gloriously and sadly mistaken.


Then this sounds like the real way to make a difference:

Originally Posted by Kabab: Want them to stand up and listen?

All the users should skip paying subs for 1 year, when they have a 8-9 figure hole in their pipeline everything will change.

Best thing is you don't have to do anything and it won't cost you a cent literally.


I know a few users have dropped from subs with the price rises and 'suite exclusive' pflow nonsense last year.

If Autodesk don't respond to the current 3ds max user outcry, ignore the Tom Hudson management pitch and basically do nothing...we should pledge to drop subscription if we're still on it. I will pledge to do that...and i'll put my $770 subs fee towards:

Nested Layer Manager Pro, Xray CAT Survival Kit, Vray, Thinking Particles, Rayfire, Krakatoa, Project Manager, Soulburn Scripts, ATK, MultiScatter etc etc etc
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Old 08 August 2013   #23
Originally Posted by Artbot: Yes, it would be a huge financial hit to ADSK, but how is it that anyone can say "We should stop paying our subscription fees - that'll show 'em!" with a straight face? How are all the businesses/DCC professionals who have ADSK tools entrenched in their pipelines supposed to simply stop using them? This is beyond ridiculous.


The fact is many users are still on Max 2009. And many other users still pay Subscription and have 'entitlement' to the latest version, but are still using Max 2012.

If a studio or user has got 3ds Max entrenched in their pipelines it's going to be very difficult for them to switch to the latest release every year anyway.

Autodesk have recently raised the cost of a licence upgrade to 70% of the cost of a new licence to 'encourage' users to stay on subscription.

I don't see a big subscription boycott beyond ridiculous, but I also don't see it 'costing you nothing' as Kabab said.

Originally Posted by Artbot: If Tom Hudson is such a valuable commodity, why doesn't he simply get some partners and investors and create something new that would pull users away from ADSK?


I don't want to use a new software helmed by Tom Hudson. I want to keep using 3DS Max, a great 3D app that is being left behind by Autodesk. Modo is a new 3D app that is now 11 year's old and still not mature enough to rival the feature set of Maya, Max or XSI.
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Old 08 August 2013   #24
I walked from Autodesk and Windows a year ago... life is better now.

I wish more people would do the same. Trying to mend an abusive relationship is just not the ideal way to go about it I think, and in doing so and continuing to give resource to Autodesk, your holding back the progress of other companies that would probably do alot more good with your money, and have much greater potential of making your life better. I personally just walked from all Autodesk software, and any business model that required their software to function. Theres plenty of room for new businesses to be set up that can provide a good quality of life and interesting work, based on software from awesome companies, eager to be awesome to their customers and push their product forward as hard as possible.

But thats just my instinct. I don't stick around and fight over resource, I'll just go make something new when an area gets fouled.

Last edited by techmage : 08 August 2013 at 01:54 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #25
I would not like an other Steve Jobs type person taking over, you would have even less say in the direction of development, with Steve it was "His way or the high way". No disrespect to the man, he certainly did wonders for apple, but that kind of approach is part of the problem Max is in now.

Be the squeeky wheel if you want to have any impact, with holding subscriptions and switching programs is truly naive and would probably hurt the users more than Adesk. In the short term anyway.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #26
It's not like your software will stop working if you stop paying subs my business partner is still fruitfully using Maya 2010..

I know there are penalties etc for missing a year of subs but believe me as someone who has worked in the sales channel..

If a large percentage of users stop paying subs for a period of time 1-2 years it will have enormous ramifications.

They will literally get down on their knees and offer you the deal of your life to get back on subs if people have the will power boycott for a period. The subscription revenue is the backbone of the company its so heavily weighed in everything they do.

If you carefully examine every single change they have made since they acquired Alias everything has been done in such a way to lock users into subscriptions and gradually increase the cost/revenue they extract from these users trapped in the system.

Just look at the emphasizes they have on bundles sure it looks like a great deal getting a whole bunch of products at a lower price but what they are gaining is a significantly higher yearly subscription fee which in the long run is a lot more money for them, they will move heaven and earth to increase this yearly recurring income a big reason for this is they get heaps more margin for subs then new seats from re-sellers new seats are something like 30% - 50% and for subs last i remember it was like 14% maybe even less now.

Be strong folks there is a world outside of Autodesk and you can get a lot done without them
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Last edited by Kabab : 08 August 2013 at 07:49 AM.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #27
I'm glad I didn't renew last year. I'd considered it a few times before.

Despite Autodesk's 'sticks' like 'you can't use legacy products' or 'you can't use a laptop version' or the 'If you walk out this door, it will cost you 70% to get back in'

There's only so many times you can use negative aspects to stop people leaving - and the suggestion that the Max dev team is a third the size of Maya's makes me really curious as to where all that subscription money goes.

Best of luck to everyone involved in trying to sort this mess out.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #28
Just switch to Blender everyone.
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Old 08 August 2013   #29
Originally Posted by Artbot: Yes, it would be a huge financial hit to ADSK, but how is it that anyone can say "We should stop paying our subscription fees - that'll show 'em!" with a straight face? How are all the businesses/DCC professionals who have ADSK tools entrenched in their pipelines supposed to simply stop using them? This is beyond ridiculous.

If Tom Hudson is such a valuable commodity, why doesn't he simply get some partners and investors and create something new that would pull users away from ADSK?



This. Instead of trying to fix another companies issues, they should just work or make their own product that would compete. Autodesk is what it is because it has no competition. If someone made a product that could compete directly with Max and Maya then that would force them to actually update/fix/rewrite their software. Without any incentive and now with subs they have cash rolling in no matter what.

Unfortunately there not a lot of tools that can compete directly with Maya, or even Max at this point. I always had hope for Softimage since it seemed to be the most likely to compete well in the market, what with legacy branding, a more modern core, at the time the tight Mental Ray integration was a plus. Once they got gobbled up by ADSK, it was basically a wrap. I would have like to have seen Softimage go to The Foundry. They would have treated the software well.
 
Old 08 August 2013   #30
Am I the only person here who has no idea who Tom Hudson is?
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