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Old 07-12-2013, 12:01 AM   #1
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Iron Sky 2 taps into crowd funding

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Following the commercial success of comic sci-fi actioner “Iron Sky,” Finnish shingle Blind Spot Pictures capitalized on the pic’s fanbase to crowd-fund over 112,000 Euros ($146,674) for “Iron Sky II — The Coming Race” via IndieGoGo.

The $14.6 million project is being developed by producer Tero Kaukomaa and helmer Timo Vuorensola, who is writing the script with Johanna Sinisalo, Jarmo Puskala and Michael Kalesniko.


Theps Udo Kier and Stephanie Paul, who starred in “Iron Sky,” are back on board. Plot of the movie are kept under wraps.

Budgeted below $10 million, “Iron Sky” was a local hit and sold to all major territories.

Kaukomaa told Variety the project — skedded to start lensing in early 2015 — has already sparked interest from sales agents and distributors.


A leading Finnish company, Helsinki-based Blind Spot Pics. is also developing “Dead Rise,” a $2 million horror project taking place in a submarine which Vuorensola is writing and is set to direct after “Iron Sky II.”
 
Old 07-12-2013, 01:54 AM   #2
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Why would they need crowd funding for a sequel, if the first one did well??
 
Old 07-12-2013, 05:17 AM   #3
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Why not? A bigger budget won't hurt.
 
Old 07-12-2013, 06:03 AM   #4
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If it's the same guy in charge I would stay away, only good thing about it was the FX
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthviper107
If it's the same guy in charge I would stay away, only good thing about it was the FX


And also the theme song!!

bum bam dum dam dim num bla bla bla to the sky, to the sky!
 
Old 07-13-2013, 11:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3D
Why would they need crowd funding for a sequel, if the first one did well??


Yes, it's like someone winning big on the lottery and then going out cap in hand asking for handouts from less fortunate people.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillster
Yes, it's like someone winning big on the lottery and then going out cap in hand asking for handouts from less fortunate people.


While I haven't visit the crowd funding site, I have no problem with pre-sale. You are not asking for handout if after giving the money, in return you get a product.

Its good for a lot of things. In manufacturing for example, prices get cheaper the more you ordered. Pre-sale is a good way of getting the amount to order, and you can plan stuff around based on the number of orders.

What I don't like is bigwigs using kickstarter - to a point they actually losing money over admin charges compared to setting up a store on their own website.
 
Old 07-14-2013, 01:32 AM   #8
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The crowd funding sites usually get a lot more attention. Though it's the opposite with the Star Citizen project which has gotten way way more on their website than the kickstarter.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3D
Why would they need crowd funding for a sequel, if the first one did well??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillster
Yes, it's like someone winning big on the lottery and then going out cap in hand asking for handouts from less fortunate people.


You're both assuming that the movie made enough of money to finance a sequel with the profits alone. This almost never happens. Iron Sky did "well" in the sense that it more or less covered the production costs, made some name for the complete unknowns behind it and that's about it. No one got rich and is driving around in a Ferrari asking for more money.
 
Old 07-14-2013, 07:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuomask
You're both assuming that the movie made enough of money to finance a sequel with the profits alone. This almost never happens. Iron Sky did "well" in the sense that it more or less covered the production costs, made some name for the complete unknowns behind it and that's about it. No one got rich and is driving around in a Ferrari asking for more money.


Even if they did get rich, that's their profit and they can spend it as they choose. And if they have any sense, choosing to spend it all funding a sci-fi movie would not be high on the list.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:22 AM   #11
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They crowd funded the first one and it was great. I excitedly bought the blu-ray when it came out. I'll gladly support a sequel.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:16 AM   #12
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Do you think any of the film might be shot in Australia as for the last one?
 
Old 06-21-2014, 05:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fablefox
While I haven't visit the crowd funding site, I have no problem with pre-sale. You are not asking for handout if after giving the money, in return you get a product.

Its good for a lot of things. In manufacturing for example, prices get cheaper the more you ordered. Pre-sale is a good way of getting the amount to order, and you can plan stuff around based on the number of orders.

What I don't like is bigwigs using kickstarter - to a point they actually losing money over admin charges compared to setting up a store on their own website.


I was a lead Technical Director for the last film. I have some deep concerns over any future productions.


It is my understanding that to get distribution deals in the first place, there needs to be a 'clean chain of title'. (Google it)


In Finland (Unlike UK and US) employers only seem to have 'user rights' not outright 'ownership rights' for materials created during employment. Such as 3D assets for films. Thus, no 'work for hire contracts'. Even 'user rights' have to be stipulated clearly in contracts such as distribution, publishing, marketing. i.e. if it is not stipulated then they don't have it. 'Adaptation rights' are separate from 'user rights' in any case and require a separate clause. If there is no separate clause then the employee maintains them. Moral rights are inalienable and cannot be transferred even under contract.

http://www.wolk.se/Publikationer/Wolk%20nr%20120.pdf

This means that (according to my own contract which has been checked by a lawyer) any Production companies economic rights or the first film seem only to have been really a licensing agreement for the film Iron Sky ONLY and not for anything else. No Games, no TV series, No sequels or prequels. Thus to use assets from the previous film will require new licenses.


Therefore, at the moment the copyright for the 3D assets of the first film such as Valkyries, Space Zeppelins, The Götterdämmerung etc belong to the multiple authors (i.e. the VFX artist) of the first film Iron Sky. Therefore Timo Vuorensola and Iron Sky Universe need to get permission from the original VFX team if he wants to use or replicate such 3D assets for any adaptations. Therefore, he has no 'clean chain of title' and cannot legally get distribution for any productions that require the copyrighted work of the original VFX artists. Additionally, none of the previous VFX team from Finland are involved with Iron Sky Universe. Further to this the original VFX artist are technically free to use their own work however they want. This also raises questions of unfair business practices by Iron Sky Universe if they are claiming to own the franchise.

One might ask Timo why exactly he is raising money through crowdsourcing if he cannot get distribution deals, because he has no 'clean chain of title'? Is he seriously never going to show Moon Nazi spaceships ever again?
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Last edited by bellwether : 08-01-2014 at 09:09 PM.
 
Old 06-21-2015, 03:09 PM   #14
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A further update regarding Iron Sky 3D assets.

I personally took the trouble to contact the Finnish Copyright Council to obtain an opinion from them concerning who the rights holders actually are in relation to the Iron Sky 3D assets such as Space Zeppelins, Valkyries, The Götterdämmerung, virtual sets, etc.

The Finnish Copyright Council gives non binding opinions on things related to the copyright act in Finland.

The upshot of this opinion (TN 2015 - 6) is that the VFX Artists are the first authors of copyright in their work.

As such it would seem that the producers of the proposed sequel, Iron Sky The Coming Race have not obtained proper permissions from the VFX Artists to use the work for any future productions. This also calls into question the validity of the producers claims to 'control the franchise' of Iron Sky.

Furthermore, anyone involved in the crowdsourcing aspect of the first film may also have some claim to copyright in their works. Especially, if there were no written contract agreements for the use of their work!

This also has implications for any 'chain of title' regarding future Iron Sky productions and thus it may well be a matter for the courts in the future. It certainly needs to be sorted out and sorted out properly!

Trevor Baylis
Original 3D artist and technical director for the film Iron Sky.

Here is and English translation of the "Analyysi ja johtopäätökset." From the non binding opinion of the Finnish Copyright Council.


Analysis and Conclusions

The Copyright Council assessed the color prints and video clips of the listed animation models enclosed in the statement request. The request claims that the scenes have been created as a collaboration of multiple workers and in many cases the practical implementation of the applicant in with the animation work or the co-ordination of the work group has been significant regarding the three-dimensional computer models and other elements. Many of the animated details such as large number of spacecraft parts have been animated either by the applicant alone or in a group with their own ideas or ideas and sketches of others used in variable amounts as the foundation of the work.

Based on the provided material the six spacecraft mentioned in the scenes can as individual scene entireties be considered individual and original enough to exceed the threshold of originality as animations. The applicant claims to have participated in the creation of five of them in different ways.

On the basis of the presented material the Copyright Council has no conditions to further assess the scenes as themselves or the separate parts and elements of the spacecraft as computer animation as original content or who has participated in the creation of the said assets. In this respect the Copyright Council will not provide an opinion of the evaluated work as it is not a task within the competence of the Copyright Council.

As the applicant themselves has stated in their request they have worked with two companies during the animation task and has signed a contract with both companies in regards to the rights of the materials and their transfers. The transfer of rights, their extent as well as the possible later use and re-use are questions of interpretation of the agreement itself, which is not within the competence of the Copyright Council.

The 3§ of the Copyright Act covers the applicant’s right to be mentioned as the original creator. When the work is reproduced or the work is partly or in full made available to the public the name creator has to be indicated in a good manner as is required. What constitutes as good manner is a question of the current practice in the field they are working in. The creator may waive their rights to their creation if agreed upon, but only if the quality and scope of the usage of the work grants it.
(Translated By: Eero N. from onehourtranslation.com)
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I think it was Francis Bacon that said there is 'no such thing as an original thought.' But I suspect he was quoting someone else.
 
Old 06-27-2015, 05:43 AM   #15
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The opinion of the Finnish copyright council, concerning the VFX Artist's work on the film Iron Sky 2012 is now available on the Finnish Ministry of Educations website.

http://www.minedu.fi/OPM/Tekijaenoi...15.html?lang=fi

2015:6 Tekijänoikeus kolmiulotteiseen tietokoneanimaatioon

(See above post for English translation of analysis and conclusions.)
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I think it was Francis Bacon that said there is 'no such thing as an original thought.' But I suspect he was quoting someone else.
 
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