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Old 06-17-2013, 05:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by beestee
The only thing Microsoft screwed up was assuming their audience would understand the implications of moving consoles into the digital future.

What happens when we turn these same criticisms towards steam, an already successful platform?


No Microsoft really did screw up badly. Because on the face of it some of their policies arent bad and are a bit better than Steam. The problem is Microsoft have been the ones that have highlighted the downsides to it. Whenever they talk they cant even seem to agree. Their dismissive of the audience and their concerns. Dont understand why their audience is concerned and cant be bothered to address those concerns.

Like the question of will the we be able to play games into the future when they shutdown the servers. Because you will not be able to play games that rely on the cloud like Forzas Drivatar system(hopefully that is optional otherwise that game will cease to exist).

Steam does not have that problem and Microsoft does have a previous where the original Xbox servers were shutdown.

The amount of games they want to use the cloud. I'm not sure they've analysed the cost of this. This whole cloud structure is going to have to be pretty big and costly? I doubt the subscription is going to pay for it all what with the activation servers and the used game servers and existing live service.

When Forza 6 or 7 comes along their going to have to keep the servers alive for Forza 5. All these games that use the cloud are going to be a net loss, a dead weight when newer things come along.

Especially when the next Xbox one one? comes out, are they going to just double the server infrastructure? I highly doubt it, they are going to shutdown the things not many people are playing. So they can write off the games and force everyone to come along to this future with them.

This cloud gaming nonsense is one of the worst things to happen to gaming. I'm betting they are going to forget about it pretty quickly though when they realise how much it is going to cost them.
 
Old 06-17-2013, 06:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabi
When Forza 6 or 7 comes along their going to have to keep the servers alive for Forza 5. All these games that use the cloud are going to be a net loss, a dead weight when newer things come along.


Who is going to want to play Forza 5 when Forza 7 comes along and we will have games of Forza 5 caliber available on our phones and tablets for $0.99? The landscape of console gaming is changing, and Microsoft is betting on the future where Sony is betting on the past. Nobody can say which bet will pay off, and for all we know, both might work out fine.
 
Old 06-17-2013, 07:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beestee
Who is going to want to play Forza 5 when Forza 7 comes along and we will have games of Forza 5 caliber available on our phones and tablets for $0.99? The landscape of console gaming is changing, and Microsoft is betting on the future where Sony is betting on the past. Nobody can say which bet will pay off, and for all we know, both might work out fine.


Thats exactly my point. Because no will play Forza 5 they will shut it down so the games are not really safe on the Xbox one, they will have a use by date. The thing is though some people do continue to play older games and even the people whom buy the latest Forza will be concerned about the built in obsolescence.

Microsoft isnt betting on the future their betting on whether consumers will swallow their drm controls.
 
Old 06-17-2013, 08:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beestee
The only thing Microsoft screwed up was assuming their audience would understand the implications of moving consoles into the digital future.

What happens when we turn these same criticisms towards steam, an already successful platform?
Quite frankly, if you have an issue, then just don't use Steam.
Easy as that. You walk in to a store, grab Witcher 2 and play the game without the internet if you want.

If a developer wants to make them on-line only, they can use their own standards for DRM as well, like Blizzard does or if they're a retro game company or an indie company they can release DRM free versions for people to buy or publish on Steam. They get the choice.

This is an open development plarform and if Steam was the default that everyone had to adhere to, I don't think PC gaming would last.
 
Old 06-17-2013, 09:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHibiki
Quite frankly, if you have an issue, then just don't use Steam.
Easy as that. You walk in to a store, grab Witcher 2 and play the game without the internet if you want.


Actually... being vocal about it does a lot more good. See what happened to Spore.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHibiki
Quite frankly, if you have an issue, then just don't use Steam.
Easy as that. You walk in to a store, grab Witcher 2 and play the game without the internet if you want.

If a developer wants to make them on-line only, they can use their own standards for DRM as well, like Blizzard does or if they're a retro game company or an indie company they can release DRM free versions for people to buy or publish on Steam. They get the choice.

This is an open development plarform and if Steam was the default that everyone had to adhere to, I don't think PC gaming would last.


I agree, I think there is room for both approaches to work, and I feel it is necessary that both approaches exist. Those not totally keen on it yet do have that option in the PS4, Xbox 360, and Wii U.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beestee
I agree, I think there is room for both approaches to work, and I feel it is necessary that both approaches exist. Those not totally keen on it yet do have that option in the PS4, Xbox 360, and Wii U.
One would hope that will be the case and X-box one will be just another failed Microsoft project, just like windows phone and windows 8 and people will stop pushing useless crap that consumers don't want.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 03:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabi
Thats exactly my point. Because no will play Forza 5 they will shut it down so the games are not really safe on the Xbox one, they will have a use by date. The thing is though some people do continue to play older games and even the people whom buy the latest Forza will be concerned about the built in obsolescence.

Microsoft isnt betting on the future their betting on whether consumers will swallow their drm controls.


I have thought about this quite a bit, and Microsoft has stated that every game purchased on the Xbox One, either on physical disc or download, will be stored in each individuals cloud library by default.

This seems like an immense use of server space by traditional storage standards, but who is to say that each individual is not simply given access to a singular cloud copy of each game? What other purpose exists for utilizing the cloud if this is not the case?

As long as the authentication protocol is unified across all games, which would again be the obvious conclusion given what few facts we have been fed, then these games should be available well beyond anyone's desire to continue accessing them. Why is that the obvious conclusion? Because the authentication protocol for any one person's profile has already been confirmed by Microsoft to be mere "kilobytes" per 24 hour period.

Logic would also dictate that this cloud hosting would be done is such a way that the demand is met efficiently as well. As a title ages, it's demand for access decreases. I imagine at minimal demand, the cloud storage and hosting requirements for any one game would be quite low, and therefore sustainable for the foreseeable future.

I understand one would be wary of their game collection being tied to the success or failure of Microsoft as a company in any case, and news around this corporation of late is overwhelmingly negative...but if Microsoft indeed folds, and the Xbox brand dies with it, then I imagine there will be much more to worry about than a lost video game collection.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 03:57 PM   #24
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i'm just... what? You think they will host every copy of a game? That's completely nonsensical.

A cloud holds your license to access a game. Downloadable versions of the game are stored much like any other thing you download from Microsoft, either as a file on a server or more likely a distributional system much like a torrent.

That said, you are completely at the mercy of Microsoft. If the licensing server or your internet goes down, so does your game. If you get banned from your account, so go your games. When Microsoft launches it's next console, they will shut down the server and there go all your games. etc.

Individual games aren't really subject to removal.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 05:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beestee
I have thought about this quite a bit, and Microsoft has stated that every game purchased on the Xbox One, either on physical disc or download, will be stored in each individuals cloud library by default.

This seems like an immense use of server space by traditional storage standards, but who is to say that each individual is not simply given access to a singular cloud copy of each game? What other purpose exists for utilizing the cloud if this is not the case?

As long as the authentication protocol is unified across all games, which would again be the obvious conclusion given what few facts we have been fed, then these games should be available well beyond anyone's desire to continue accessing them. Why is that the obvious conclusion? Because the authentication protocol for any one person's profile has already been confirmed by Microsoft to be mere "kilobytes" per 24 hour period.

Logic would also dictate that this cloud hosting would be done is such a way that the demand is met efficiently as well. As a title ages, it's demand for access decreases. I imagine at minimal demand, the cloud storage and hosting requirements for any one game would be quite low, and therefore sustainable for the foreseeable future.

I understand one would be wary of their game collection being tied to the success or failure of Microsoft as a company in any case, and news around this corporation of late is overwhelmingly negative...but if Microsoft indeed folds, and the Xbox brand dies with it, then I imagine there will be much more to worry about than a lost video game collection.


I'm not talking about the storing of games or anything but they are additional costs. I'm talking about the cloud gaming system where they are allowing games to use the servers sort of like an extra limb. With some of these games that may not work if that extra limb is missing.

Some of this cloud functionality may not be cheap, and if you have lots of these cloud games with just a few people using them. Resources and money are not unlimited, when money comes into things they may well decide to shut a few games down. I would not trust Microsoft to keep them going for very long especially as they already did this with the multiplayer on the original Xbox.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 06:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabi
I'm not talking about the storing of games or anything but they are additional costs. I'm talking about the cloud gaming system where they are allowing games to use the servers sort of like an extra limb. With some of these games that may not work if that extra limb is missing.

Some of this cloud functionality may not be cheap, and if you have lots of these cloud games with just a few people using them. Resources and money are not unlimited, when money comes into things they may well decide to shut a few games down. I would not trust Microsoft to keep them going for very long especially as they already did this with the multiplayer on the original Xbox.


That does make sense.

I guess it would be up to the game developer to make these features additive, in that the game should be able to run fine without the cloud enhancements unless the game in question requires a persistent online community. MMOs come to mind.

I loved the Xbox 360 game "Chromehounds" but sadly most of the game's best experiences were to be had in the online multiplayer. In fact, many of the game's achievements were based on multiplayer, and that game's multiplayer servers are no longer functioning therefore disabling many of the incentives to revisit that game today.

So this issue is not isolated to the Xbox One but rather any game with an online component. Of course it is now more apparent since, as you have made clear, the single player experiences will now also be utilizing online aspects.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 06:53 PM   #27
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I am on a constant strong connection and have been using Steam for years so the model that Xbone has fallen into isn't too awful for my current lifestyle. The cost difference is a big hit though when tied with the other factors though. I had been a fanboy for xbox and 360 for a good while, loved playing call of duty overseas when I was deployed in the Marines as well. When I saw the video of Microsoft saying if you can't access the internet they have a 360 for that I laughed as that seemed like a smack in the face to my many friends still serving overseas. Only in specific situations could we ever hook a civilian piece of tech into a network, most significant deployments this would be impossible for security reasons.

For now I am mostly a PC gamer still though, my chances of jumping into the PS4 crew depends on which games are on it and not on PC (steam) and how many of my friends do as well since I mainly play games to catch up with friends.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 07:58 PM   #28
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I stayed in a hotel in Detroit for 6 months with really crappy wifi. Even though I had gone into off-line mode, I still had frequent struggles playing Bio Shock (single player game...) and had to wait 20 or so minutes for the wifi to stay up long enough for it to be authorized. I don't know if BS had to be designed to work with the offline mode or if Steam was just sloppy, but that was a big source of frustration for me.

Steam makes me grind my teeth and I will never own an XBONE.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:58 PM   #29
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