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Old 04-18-2013, 03:10 AM   #31
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Does anyone know if I can repeat a pattern over a surface with the clip brushes? I guess kinda like the radial symmetry in zbrush. I can't find the radial symmetry option in 3dcoat.
 
Old 04-18-2013, 07:49 AM   #32
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Thanks for the reply !

Actually i keep seeing lots of models done the old way, starting with polygons especially if they are hard surface objects.
For example vehicles or helicopters and mechanical things that have to be rigged are now these modeled starting from sculpting and then retopoed ?

If this brings great results in terms of edges and precision, i really have no problem with this also because it actually frees artist from thinking polygons since the start and more thinking about shapes first, polygons later.

In my mindset i kept thinking more like sculpting/retopo is more suited for organics than hard surface, but if its great for hard surface is even better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
It was the new frontier four years ago, everybody's been doing that for a while.
It takes a very particular set of conditions, legacy to support, or a very stubborn and old school artist to not start from within a sculpting package even for hard surface these days.

Only environments and some particular things tend to be roughed out and kit bashed from a "normal" app these days, and that's inevitably because of the assembly qualities.

Mudbox and the recent integration of NEX to maya are late to the game, but 3DCoat, Zbrush, and Topogun have been at the starting end of modelling pipelines that go straight from art to sculpt for a while now.

You're getting out of touch


That's probably a good thing accounting for dev time being a finite resource.
The retopo tools (alongside the linux support) already got it in a lot of places, they are already very well regarded as is coupled with the not-best-in-show but still solid UV tools that you have the option to sketch out at the same time. The sculpting and the tacticle (lack of) feeling needed work, and it seems something is being done, while I haven't done much in pre v4 other than retopo and UVs (sculpting felt hella awkward), this release looks good enough that I think I will give it another try. It might very well expand its niche.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:03 AM   #33
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cool promo video. 3Dcoat models look more organic than they did in the past. This gets definately on the top of my apps to learn list.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:45 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemoid
For example vehicles or helicopters and mechanical things that have to be rigged are now these modeled starting from sculpting and then retopoed ?



yes but its looking terrible... much to wonky and no proper detail... no clean form or correct bevels... you can clear see its done with zbrush... yes its fast and you get decent freestyle stuff... but it wont work for more advanced hard surface from reference... but if you know how to bend the workflow into your design you are able to do really great looking art...
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemoid
Thanks for the reply !

Actually i keep seeing lots of models done the old way, starting with polygons especially if they are hard surface objects.
For example vehicles or helicopters and mechanical things that have to be rigged are now these modeled starting from sculpting and then retopoed ?

Those you normally buy or kitbash and then clean up.
Things that are intricate/designery though are getting started as a sculpt more and more often (armors/exoskeletons, weapons etc.)

@Oglu, not so at all, I've seen plenty evidence to the countrary. Vehicles it's hit and miss, more miss than hit, but a ton of other things that have a design/creative element to them are much better started as a sculpt usually. There is not a chance in a frozen hell you can trim and kitbash in Maya, Max or Softimage at a fraction of the speed you do in ZB (and I'm sure in 3DCoat as well).
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:46 AM   #36
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Okay. I've stopped by the 3D-Coat site more than a few times over the years, but it's clear I need to jump into the demo and give it a try.
 
Old 04-20-2013, 02:07 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepFactory
Does anyone know if I can repeat a pattern over a surface with the clip brushes? I guess kinda like the radial symmetry in zbrush. I can't find the radial symmetry option in 3dcoat.


Radial Symmetry was being worked on and was even previewed in a video, unfortunatdely it wasn't ready for release as I understand it. That along with most of the work on the Live Clay related tools is being done by Raúl Fernández Hernandez (Farsthary), but it is difficult for him as he lives in Cuba and rarely has internet access. He worked with the main developer Andrew Shpagin in Kiev a couple of times but had to go home early last time due to a visa mix up. Raul is also known for the Unlimited Clay tools for Blender.
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Last edited by philnolan3d : 04-20-2013 at 03:40 AM.
 
Old 04-20-2013, 06:22 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oglu
yes but its looking terrible... much to wonky and no proper detail... no clean form or correct bevels... you can clear see its done with zbrush... yes its fast and you get decent freestyle stuff... but it wont work for more advanced hard surface from reference... but if you know how to bend the workflow into your design you are able to do really great looking art...


Thanks this is basically what i wanted to know. I know for sure that in terms of design from sctratch or from some inspiration, sculpting hard surface is a great thing really frees you from thinking about polygons and allows to think about shapes, the general silhouette and so on.
I also see a very lot of great looking hard surface models done like that in ZBrush and other apps.

But at the end of the day you also need a well done and optimized polygon cage for animation (moving parts, moving mechanisms etc.) in traditional 3D apps. This is the main limitation i see.
These apps are not milions of polygon eaters like Zbrush BUT allow animation and rigging and for this reason you have to retopo or rebuild by hand at least certain parts of sculpted shapes.

Then if in time even sculpting/retopo process gets to a good level of precision and obtains an enough good cage, the better, i'm not here to blame this workflow for sure, that's why i said its new fronteer.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:22 AM   #39
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