10% price hike on 3dsmax/maya (UK)

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Old 03 March 2013   #31
if this turns out to be another 'meh' release autodesk will get their wish...a few studio's will go the the suites and a ton of people will bail on subscription for just 3dsmax and move somewhere else like cinema4d or modo 701.

so autodesk will be selling suites only in 2015 but have a much reduced set of customers and smaller profits overall.

well done.
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Old 03 March 2013   #32
Why would employees at Autodesk want to work hard to improve on a product when you get thousands and the executive gets millions? This is partly why a product stays stagnant. The other is that managers want to become executives and some employees want to become managers. But they all don't look at the core of the problem which is to truly improve the products and nothing else.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #33
Originally Posted by techmage: I wish some people who work at autodesk would at times chime in and say what they think about this whole thing. I know people who work at autodesk and actually develop some of these applications post here. Sometimes I feel bad because I know all the developers who work at autodesk are probably really brilliant, crazy talented programmers, just the management and financial departments tend to screw things up. I'd really like to hear from some of the programmers on how they feel about the future of 3DS and Maya.


If you asked me, I think the small version of Autodesk future would be Silo. Even if the software was once awesome, but once they realize it doesn't bring as much money as other thing, they will phase it out, just like Apple and Shake (AFAIK).

Imagine this if you are a business:

You pay 10 programmer 100,000 each per yeah on project A. It brought in 3 million.

You pay 10 programmer 100,000 each per yeah on project B. It brought in 9 million.

You can blame an accountant as much as you want, but which project to axe and which to support is pretty easy. You can't simply say 'grow both', since market is not infinite. Only scammers working on pyramid scheme think market is infinity and you can basically have gazillions of downline.

If I remember correctly now autodesk app can be rented in the US:

http://www.cgchannel.com/2012/11/au...r-max-and-maya/

So maybe the market volatility itself that scares AD (studios keep closing down). I don't know if discussing details could change anything by now. Anyway, I don't think the blame can be squarely put on Autodesk.

If AD didn't bought Softimage, it could end up dead anyway. Too much people already move on to another software (from what I heard).

The same with Maya.

The thing with Autodesk is that they have other business division that can act as big brother to their entertainment division. They can wither up and down. I don't know if the original owner of SoftImage and Maya can do that.

I mean, before subscription, studios rarely upgrade in middle of project. and a project can go up to 3 to 4 years. How this will affect original owner of SI and Maya?

Even bigger question is, if people move away due to prince increase. this will reduce profit. and when will AD decided to shut down entertainment division? (I don't think they will sell it out, due to IP and patent and all which could be useful to other division).

I think that is the bigger question.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #34
Originally Posted by hvanderwegen: ...and then I see realtime archviz in action with two 580 cards and Cycles, and the constant barrage of interesting, enthusiastic updates and bug fixes with every new version of Blender, and I start to wonder: why, AD? That 10% price hike pays for one GPU render node. ;-)

http://www.blendernation.com/2013/0...-action-archviz


Now that cycles start supporting hair, maybe I'll give it another test run. I really wish Blender focus more on core issues. We'll see how they handle desgraph and OpenGL viewport rewrite (?). Will it end up just like the migration from 2.4 to 2.5?

Either way, Lightwave is picking up the slack. We'll see how thing progress.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #35
Originally Posted by Dirtvic: Autodesk will kill himself in 4 or 5 years. Putting same tools in every year adding 2.,3 plugs and making a 2013.5(for what?)

Damn look at those foundry(Mari 2.0) and Sidefx(Houdini 12.5) they have put something which artists need.



I don't think it will end Autodesk as a company but i wouldnt be surprised to see diminishing returns from their 3d/entertainment products. Autodesk is much more than maya/mudbox/max/xsi etc

I'm no economist or business expert but is this a trend that happens with public companies? I see modo making leaps and bounds, same with Mari, im a user of Houdini and love the progress they have made in the last few years, i love the new updates to zbrush and i just bought 3dcoat (i needed a dedicated 3d texturing solution) a couple of months back and week after week it gets updates.
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Old 03 March 2013   #36
AD will eventually have to become customer focussed rather than shareholder focussed if they know what's good for them. There are some good alternatives out there and coming up. There is the upcoming Modo 701, Cinema 4D is always advancing nicely and Lightwave 3D seems to be back in the game with recent decent updates. Plus Houdini which may be expensive, but at least you have good advanced features and updates for the money. Blender is looking cool too for freelancers and small businesses.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #37
I wouldn't be surprised if internally Autodesk already decided to close their Media and Entertainment branch and were now just trying to squeeze out as much money from their existing customers as possible over the course of the next few years before they finally axe it. Mind you, it's just pure conjecture on my part, but it might be worth considering if you heavily rely on their products.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #38
Originally Posted by cresshead: Modelling - lightwave - standard models or zbrush:organic characters (i have both)
animation - non autodesk...that would have to be lightwave
rendering - modo 601 - the renderer is excelent for stills

my current lineup of software is:
lightwave - 2 seats one at 9.6 and one at 10.0
3dsmax - on subscription
zbrush
modo - 601

i bought modo 601 last year as a 'plan b' to the lack lustre releases of 3dsmax over the previous 4 years and also the awful time i had with the whole core U-turn with lightwave..i wanted a stand alone app that had nothing to do with autodesk or newtek at the time.

currently i use modo for rendering stills mainly, but i could see it taking on more and more work if Autodesk continue to squeeze the life out of 3dsmax.

As for lightwave, i have it and use it for certains projects such as VFX w ork on sci fi projects such as Venus Rises.

If i had to guess where i'll be in 5 years time?
I'd probably say i'll still be using zbrush and modo and probably take up blender to fill the gaps.

I've been using 3dsmax sunce 1999 and whilst it's sad to look at dropping subs i will not be held to ransom for rubbish buggy releases, they need to finish the re write and get the app fast/lean and mean and put some actual EFFORT into developing it. Changing the icons so they are bland and unreadable is not enough for a new release in my opinion. Taking 120 seconds to boot up is not on either. Nitrus viewports...really?
Dropping reactor..what about all the scenes people made with reactor?

Iray...useless slow and limited functionality...i require a preview renderer for my renderer (mental ray) not a red headed stepchild that works in only a few scenes that need to be built with iray i mind.

Autodesk need to get a grip and i don't mean around the throat of their customers.

the fat lady isn't singing yet, I'll give Autodesk a chance to deliver a stuning release with 2014 if i feel it's worth 650 upgrade fee and looks to be headed somewhere cool for 2015 they might get my money still.
Check the upgrade price again...it's about $2800 now.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #39
Originally Posted by fuss: I wouldn't be surprised if internally Autodesk already decided to close their Media and Entertainment branch and were now just trying to squeeze out as much money from their existing customers as possible over the course of the next few years before they finally axe it. Mind you, it's just pure conjecture on my part, but it might be worth considering if you heavily rely on their products.


Now that you mentioned it, maybe you are right. I mean, they actually bundled Face Robot into a software, which they also 'bundled' into a package. And how much Face Robot originally cost? I think they just buying up stuff for the IP, patent, and experience but to focus to engineering and development areas, but not entertainment.

I think it is interesting that they develop easy to use consumer product modelling software, which currently still in beta, but not lightweight entertainment oriented product.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #40
Originally Posted by AbnRanger: Check the upgrade price again...it's about $2800 now.


i'm currently on subscription so i'll have 2014 delivered here...i need to renew subs in the summer..so it's 650...after the summer if my subs lapse then yeh..2800 plus 20% VAT!
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Old 03 March 2013   #41
i believe autodesk's long term stratergy is to lower cost of development over ALL of their media and entertainment range by going SUITES ONLY to achieve that they are raising the prices on single app subs to push you to suites.

Once it's suites only they can get a higher per head subscription charge and also deliver maybe 1 proper update within the suite set of apps per year in effect making updates every 3 years.

for example:

year 1: maya gets a proper feature update, motion builder and mudbox only a stability update...

year 2: maya stability update, motion builder feature update, mudbox stability update

year 3: maya stability update, motion builder stability update and mudbox feature update

with the suite only strategy Autodesk can legitamately say the 'suite' has had major feature updates every year

you can forget softimage that's "finished" in proper updates it's the freeby bundle app that's all but mothballed like combustion and composite.

that's how i see their stratergy in the next few years, reduce development costs and maximise subscriptions.

I'm sure Autodesk are convinced that they have sewn up the 3d market with aquirng Maya, Motion builder, Mudbox and Softimage.

they want to go back to a multi year development model but retain a 12 monthly subscription model.

the end of this month is going to be eye opening on exactly where 3ds max is heading, either i've got this totally wrong ( i hope i have actually) or my gut feelings have been spot on!
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Last edited by cresshead : 03 March 2013 at 04:32 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #42
Originally Posted by cresshead: i believe autodesk's long term stratergy is to lower cost of development over ALL of their media and entertainment range by going SUITES ONLY to achieve that they are raising the prices on single app subs to push you to suites.

Once it's suites only they can get a higher per head subscription charge and also deliver maybe 1 proper update within the suite set of apps per year in effect making updates every 3 years.

for example:

year 1: maya gets a proper feature update, motion builder and mudbox only a stability update...

year 2: maya stability update, motion builder feature update, mudbox stability update

year 3: maya stability update, motion builder stability update and mudbox feature update

with the suite only strategy Autodesk can legitamately say the 'suite' has had major feature updates every year

you can forget softimage that's "finished" in proper updates it's the freeby bundle app that's all but mothballed like combustion and composite.

that's how i see their stratergy in the next few years, reduce development costs and maximise subscriptions.

I'm sure Autodesk are convinced that they have sewn up the 3d market with aquirng Maya, Motion builder, Mudbox and Softimage.

they want to go back to a multi year development model but retain a 12 monthly subscription model.

the end of this month is going to be eye opening on exactly where 3ds max is heading, either i've got this totally wrong ( i hope i have actually) or my gut feelings have been spot on!
Yeah, I was really looking forward to upgrading to finalRender R4 GPU when it's released, but now I'm probably going to put that toward a seat of Lightwave or Modo instead. AD's pricing is just way too coercive. Can't reward them for that...especially since they have been delivering rather paltry upgrades lately. 2013 was a joke.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #43
is Lightwave or Modo really going to give you what Max can though ?

Serious question, it is years since I used either but i do remember using both and they are not fond memories. Sure they have a few good points, I remember gradients in lightwave were awesome as was modeler, modo was really slick when I used that too and the renderer looks pretty nice. Max feels clunky compared to both but still a real production tool compared with the suite of pluggin required for complex solutions eg, RPManager, fume fx, pflow, etc.
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Old 03 March 2013   #44
Originally Posted by irwit: is Lightwave or Modo really going to give you what Max can though ?

Serious question, it is years since I used either but i do remember using both and they are not fond memories. Sure they have a few good points, I remember gradients in lightwave were awesome as was modeler, modo was really slick when I used that too and the renderer looks pretty nice. Max feels clunky compared to both but still a real production tool compared with the suite of pluggin required for complex solutions eg, RPManager, fume fx, pflow, etc.


I do own LW10 edu. Although I didn't even bother to install latest MAX (I do have the edu account though), I think I can basically say, no. The reason is that you've said MAX, not Maya. The pipeline is too far different. There are people on Modo forum that while they own Modo, they still use MAX, even just for the editable text. I guess the pricing and the fact that you can change text is still worth it, although I dont know which version he's own now.

The good news is that some plug in developer does recognize LW, such as Vue. And there are GOZ to ZBrush and also applink for 3D Coat. But other than that, you need to look at the plug-in you are using now, and if they are available for LW. As we know, specialized plug in is of course can do some job faster, better and easier.

In short, no. Again, since you mentioned MAX, I'm suggesting more of arch-viz than to film? I think editable, parameter based and all those generator alone worth their price. Lightwave need LW-Cad. But I think there is LW-Cad like software from the developer for MAX.

So if your yearly profit is more than enough to cover MAX software, then stay with it. Other than that, you need to make adjustment in both your budget, and maybe your workflow.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #45
Originally Posted by irwit: is Lightwave or Modo really going to give you what Max can though ?

Serious question, it is years since I used either but i do remember using both and they are not fond memories. Sure they have a few good points, I remember gradients in lightwave were awesome as was modeler, modo was really slick when I used that too and the renderer looks pretty nice. Max feels clunky compared to both but still a real production tool compared with the suite of pluggin required for complex solutions eg, RPManager, fume fx, pflow, etc.



depends what you want from your 3d app:
they both work differently from 3dsmax and have different pluses and minus points to consider for example both modo and lightwave have preview renderers whereas 3dsmax doesn't have a preview renderer but instead offers a completely separate additional renderer (iRay) that has some preview capability but at the expense of GPU cards and limited render functionality.
However it is not mental ray and you have to create specific iray based scenes with limitation of iray in mind.

you can model in any of the 3d apps to a good degree.
rigging, mo cap etc is far more advanced in 3dsmax than modo or lightwave however.

is modo 3dsmax?...no, it's modo and means that it's way ahead on some things and waaaay behind on other things.

can modo or lightwave replace 3dsmax without a hitch? no that the short answer!
but some are willing to move and fill in any gaps with other apps/plugins

3dsmax was a great app and can still be great but the people at the helm appear to want to push their users away for whatever reason and just go upmarket for studio's who might require suites and not just seats of 3dsmax.

such large price increases for subs and getting back onboard if you stop subs is hurting users, we're not in boom times, money is tight.

I hope 3dsmax 2014 is a huge release with massive new features...they will go some way to explaining the price increases, if it's just increamental like 2013 then...well we'll see!


just to underpin, i've been using 3dsmax since 1999, i'm not taking this lightly...if i drop subs it's a major decision i have a plan b in place but would still prefer to use 3dsmax and keep it going...but i will not be pushed into things i do not want or require.
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Last edited by cresshead : 03 March 2013 at 03:58 AM.
 
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