Announcing Redshift - Biased GPU Renderer

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  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by Zendorf: Yeah, there are a ton of GPU path tracers out there now, so it is exciting to see a development like this Would be great to have something where you are not always battling with noise levels , as you do with the unbiased renderers.

I couldn't see any animation samples on your site, so was wondering how suitable it is for animation. What sort of GI sampling modes are suitable for object animation in Redshift? Is a IR/LC combo the most suitable, as with Vray, or would it require a brute force approach?

As I mainly use Cinema 4D, I am hoping there are plans for supporting it as this on the cards?

Hello Zendorf

Regarding your question about animation samples, we are working on adding more examples and maybe videos showing our renderer in action. We also hope that some of you guys can give us an artistic hand and deliver us from "programmer art"! ;-)

We have rendered tons of animations here with the irradiance cache and the irradiance point cloud enabled. We have found that GI animation artifacts (flickering or 'crawling' splotches) can be typically eliminated my increasing the amount of IC rays / IPC samples. We have compared our results with other renderers (and with equivalent settings) and we believe that we are at the very least competitive in terms of quality for both static scenes and animations.

Of course, if you don't want to have to experiment with point-based GI settings, brute force is always an option. Brute-force can be combined with the irradiance point cloud which makes multiple GI bounces render much faster and with much less noise!

Regarding Cinema4D support: we are definitely open to it - especially if we hear lots of people asking for it! After 3DSMax support is online, we'll be evaluating support for all other DCCs. An API is also in the works so that 3rd parties can hopefully help us with plugin creation.

  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by GQ1: I just took a look at your web site and indeed you are planning on this an other features like Deformation Motion Blur, Displacement, Hair, Particles, Volumetrics, Render Passes, Multi-GPU Support, Network Rendering, Ptex Support.

Although I guess it will be years till we see all or most of these implemented.

Hello GQ1!

We hope to have most of the listed features online in the next few months. Since you mentioned displacement maps on your original post: we already have tessellation/subDs (tris/quads) working so displacement mapping (which is a natural extension to tessellation) is coming *real* soon! Also deformation motion blur is currently being implemented.

Depending on user feedback we'll prioritize on the remaining features.


  03 March 2013
Displacement and deformation motion blur would be on the top of my list.
  03 March 2013
Hi guys,

My new CGTalk account seems to have misplaced a couple of posts I made earlier today. They might show up later once they go through CGTalk's approval process but, in case they don't, I will re-iterate them here...

Regarding out-of-core performance:

Won't lie about it: there *can* be a performance penalty with out-of-core geometry if it's all visible and its size exceeds the available VRAM by a large factor. There are solutions to improving this condition which we'll be trying in the next few months. BTW, if you are curious about how many triangles we can fit in VRAM, a *very rough* ballpark figure is 10m triangles in 600MB of VRAM. We are working on improving this number further.

While out-of-core geometry performance might suffer in some cases, out-of-core texturing performance works really great!! We have rendered scenes with hundreds of megabytes of texture data (and in a few cases gigabytes) and it consumed very little VRAM (30-60MB). So if you like super high resolution textures, you are in luck!

Regarding animation in GI:

We have rendered tons of animations here with the irradiance cache and irradiance point cloud enabled. We have found that any GI animation artifacts (such as flickering or crawling splotches) go away once the quality settings are high enoungh, i.e. enough IC rays and irradiance point cloud samples. "Irradiance point cloud", btw, is our equivalent to VRay's "Light Cache". It doesn't work exactly the same but it serves a very similar purpose (to get multiple GI bounces fast and clean).

We've done comparison renders with other renderers (with equivalent quality settings) and we've found our results to be *at least* comparable and, often, superior.

Having said all of that, some people simply don't enjoy tweaking GI settings. If that's the case, there's always the brute-force fallback which, once combined with the irradiance point cloud (which has very few settings to tweak) can give you fast and clean multiple GI bounces!

Regarding Cinema4D support:

Once 3DSMax support is online we'll look to all other DCCs. If we get enough interest for Cinema4D, Sketchup, Lightwave, Blender or any other DCC we'll obviously do it! We are also working on an API so that 3rd parties can help us out with creating plugins for other DCCs.

Please let us know if you have any questions or comments!

  03 March 2013
this looks mighty impressive and would be interested in a cinema4d version
  03 March 2013
Thanks for the info Panos, you should put up some of those animation renders onto your website with render times. This would definitely generate more interest than just stills.

It is a pity that Cinema4D is often giving such a low priority among developers(ie. some time after the Autodesk apps), considering how large its marketshare now is. Except for the film/vfx market there are almost certainly more seats of C4D out there than Softimage, for instance.
Many broadcast and motion graphics studios would kill for a renderer like this if it is as fast as it seems, but in the meantime Vray and Octane will be the goto third party renderers.

Will keep my eye on this product though as it is very promising
  03 March 2013
Quote: there are almost certainly more seats of C4D out there than Softimage, for instance

While that is definitely true, remember that c4d does not come bundled with mental ray as its default renderer. And while that may not mean anything to you, for people using xsi in 2013 it means a ton of headaches. And while it's true that now we have arnold and vray available for it, you have to remember one is prohibitive to say the least, and the other is more than 1k/license. So for a freelancer or small studio, a new gpu renderer fully integrated with the platform would be more than welcome.
Also c4d's internal renderer, afaik, is pretty damn good, and most of the stuff that gets integrated into the package, is rock the maxwell integration for example, which is miles ahead of the one in xsi. (and that's another choice for a renderer).
To be honest, most c4d users i know have no complaints about rendering choices.
All in all, if these guys will get licenses sold, i'm sure there will be plenty of softimage freelancers sick and tired of mental ray, that can't access things like arnold, and can't afford things like vray.
  03 March 2013
This looks really nice, i'd love to give it a try.

But what about the 'production stuff', like passes (lighting&secondaries) , mattes, IDs and so on?
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by Zendorf: It is a pity that Cinema4D is often giving such a low priority among developers(ie. some time after the Autodesk apps), considering how large its marketshare now is. Except for the film/vfx market there are almost certainly more seats of C4D out there than Softimage, for instance.

It is my impression that any developers that don't deliver Mac OS X solutions as well as windows, won't be easily approached by Maxon. C4D has more than 40% Mac OS X users (if my knowledge serves me right).
I'd love for other developers to consider Mac users a bit more, just like Maxon does.
If Redshift came out for Mac today, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, like I bought Vray, Maxwellrender and Thea Render. I don't even use them much (except Vray).
But of course that's just my opinion, and I am a bit jealous for not being able to buy it.

Other than that, Redshift looks like an amazing product. Great job people, I tip my hat.
Follow me on Twitter@nosemangr - Watch me on Noseman's Youtube Channel
  03 March 2013
back on topic...

I usually have over 8GB of textures in RAM when I render (extremely detailed packaging).
Would Redshift be able to handle this amount of textures?

Follow me on Twitter@nosemangr - Watch me on Noseman's Youtube Channel
  03 March 2013
This is looking incredibly Interesting. Wow...if it can handle big textures and Displacement....thats a big thing. I also raise my Voice for a CINEMA 4D Bridge. I buy it in one Second.
I would also like to see some Animation Examples...I could not find more examples than the ones you posted. Is there no Gallery or such?
Cinema 4D Studio MSA, Zbrush, CS6, 3DCoat, Moi
Twitter: @holgerbiebrach

  03 March 2013
is redshift the gpu renderer that have been shown on siggraph rendering
a multi million polygon scene with an airplane in it?

  03 March 2013
i would also love to see Cinema 4D support, and i would buy it immediately when it is out (if it will be ever released for C4D).

Cinema 4D user base is growing very fast (and it is already quite big), and Cinema 4D has almost everything (sculpting, modelling, texturing, animation tools etc..) expect good rendering, C4D's own render engine is very slow and it doesn't offer realistic results with good speed.

Only good option for C4D is Vray but that lag behind the original vray renderer and a lot, (we have 1.2.5... version and there are already 2.3 for maya? Or do i remember it right?), also bad motion blur support in the current version, but the current vray is still the best what C4D has

So i would love to see other option for C4D in rendering. Also other vray and C4D users have spoke from searching other rendering solutions for their needs, so i think that C4D would be good option for expand the support in redshift.

Last edited by jumamu : 03 March 2013 at 12:26 PM. Reason: I would like to tell more about the situation in C4D
  03 March 2013
Add my vote for C4D support as well.

  03 March 2013
add my vote for C4D as well

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