Sony Previews PlayStation 4: More Power, More Immersive Games Planned

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  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by Phrenzy84: I might be wrong but doesn't the current gen ps3 & xbox use only 512mb of Ram. 8Gb is monstrous. On the flip side, game development is going to be more lengthy/expensive/risky if one were to take advantage of it all right?

Development will be heaps easier since the PS4 is basically a DX11 PC which people have been developing for quiet some time now.. No more of this cell which craft non stand business..
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  02 February 2013
The scene in deep down where the hero charges the dragon looks like a pre-rendered cutscene with on-screen button-bashing prompts. Is this the engine? If so, I am impressed.
 
  02 February 2013
It was running all in engine in real time. A couple of capcom devs verified it on other forums.

Not saying it was game play, but it was running real time.

--

I have to say the most impressive game for me was Watch Dogs once again. What an incredible looking game. Hats off to Ubisoft.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by Kabab: Development will be heaps easier since the PS4 is basically a DX11 PC which people have been developing for quiet some time now.. No more of this cell which craft non stand business..


Oh i meant from an assets standpoint all the model/textures (some cool tools out there to help in that regard though). Yeah on the coding side im sure it will be much easier to develop engines and manage resources.
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  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by Pyke: http://www.1up.com/news/e3-2007-killzone-2-target

Yeah-it really did get it pretty accurate! In some cases, even better.

As an FX guy - the thing that I always remain skeptical of with the use of pre-rendered demos is when they show obvious fluid sims (fire trails, soldiers on fire). Because the 'game-KZ2' replaced those FX with *obvious* particles (the game's fire trail at least). Particles for fire and smoke always looks like 'particles' to me... Those types of effects have not hit 'hollywood-movie-levels-in-games' as far as *I* am concerned!

Deep Down is suggesting beaucoup amounts of fluids with those fire FX! I don't doubt game-fluids are coming some day. And I can't wait to try the tool-set (demo videos & white papers don't count). But thats the gauntlet
I'm throwing down for any game platform: Show me fluids in a game engine!

And 'no' turbulence particles ain't the same thing.

Originally Posted by SheepFactory: It was running all in engine in real time. A couple of capcom devs verified it on other forums.

Not saying it was game play, but it was running real time.


Again. Show me the tech. What they 'say' and whats *true* are different things. Looking forward to being proven wrong...someday.

Last edited by circusboy : 02 February 2013 at 04:16 PM.
 
  02 February 2013
I saw fluid effects in a lot of the demos, I think the Killzone demo had it too---Hope that's true because that would be awesome.

Overall it was a pretty good jump, saw lots of real-time reflections and much better antialiasing and depth of field.
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  02 February 2013
The KZ2 side-by-side (linked to earlier in this thread) was careful to label 'volumetric fire' and 'fire fx' but never stated 'fluid fx'. But the pre-rendered demo (for KZ2) looks to me like its got some-'fluids proper' meanwhile the game isn't showing me the same thing.
Afterburn on particles is -nice- but NOT the same thing as FumeFX! So volumetrics and sprites on particles are not Fluids. They are just trying desperately to resemble them when doing fire and smoke.

Show me something like this video -but with a proper game fluid engine and I'll shut up.
https://developer.nvidia.com/apex-turbulence
If fluids in a game engine were 'easy' than this 'turbulence' demo would be *redundant* for all but specific blowing sand and snow effects (where you want to see some grain).

Last edited by circusboy : 02 February 2013 at 05:17 PM.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by Kabab: Development will be heaps easier since the PS4 is basically a DX11 PC which people have been developing for quiet some time now.. No more of this cell which craft non stand business..


DX11? On PS4?
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  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by circusboy: As an FX guy - the thing that I always remain skeptical of with the use of pre-rendered demos is when they show obvious fluid sims (fire trails, soldiers on fire). Because the 'game-KZ2' replaced those FX with *obvious* particles (the game's fire trail at least). Particles for fire and smoke always looks like 'particles' to me... Those types of effects have not hit 'hollywood-movie-levels-in-games' as far as *I* am concerned!

Deep Down is suggesting beaucoup amounts of fluids with those fire FX! I don't doubt game-fluids are coming some day. And I can't wait to try the tool-set (demo videos & white papers don't count). But thats the gauntlet
I'm throwing down for any game platform: Show me fluids in a game engine!

And 'no' turbulence particles ain't the same thing.


Again. Show me the tech. What they 'say' and whats *true* are different things. Looking forward to being proven wrong...someday.



You should play crysis 3 (on PC), best smoke/fire/explosions I have seen in a game yet.
 
  02 February 2013
Deep Down was a highlight of the show for me ...
Lets just hope it was running in real-time

oh ... and that Ram ... 16 times more and faster then ps3/
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  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by nakimushi: Deep Down was a highlight of the show for me ...
Lets just hope it was running in real-time

oh ... and that Ram ... 16 times more and faster then ps3/

16 times more characters with the same quality Woot!
 
  02 February 2013
Yeah, developing a game where the baseline system is 8GB and not the high mark. That won't be too shabby.
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  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by SheepFactory: You should play crysis 3 (on PC), best smoke/fire/explosions I have seen in a game yet.

So good you hardly miss them thats for sure.
Still are we just seeing lots of texture memory (for detailed sprite sequence playback on cards)?!...
The tech still it seems to be about particles and volumetrics at best. No fluids. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ffBZI5PpM

This is what I want to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXQTQaVAX-k
Plain and simple don't try to hide it in 'game-chaos' to 'pretend' it exists.
Much of these are rather unrealistic fire tests-but the continuous-flow of real fluids just cannot be faked. Or if you do-you've wasted a hell of a lot of time doing so.

All that to say if the Dragon Fire in Deep Down ain't doing this (in the release version) I'm gonna be able to tell. Geek out.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by Per-Anders: For all KZ's faults graphics was not one of them, the actual release looked better than the PS3 launch renders, the hype definitely did not die down and in fact it was often cited as an example of delivering on a promise despite the original being pre-rendered.


Apologies for coming back late Per, didn't have time to get back earlier. Yes, certain aspects got delivered on, I stand corrected here, other aspects however weren't.

The KZ2 target render impressed me so very much, due to the suggested level of interactions between environment, the protagonist and the "implied" AI of his squad and the enemies, it felt extremely lifelike and dynamic and made the battle scene feel very intense, seamless and cinematic due to the way the AI behaved and reacted on each other and you and as such contributed in amplifying the impact of this trailer at that very moment.

Most people didn't have much experience with cell at that time, it felt like suddenly an age had arrived where everything was possible.

It's interesting, because when re-visiting the trailer again, the graphics have passed their wow-effect and feel dated, but the way the battle is put in scene, the suggested AI, is still something that's way too sophisticated for your typical FPS action and gives it away as a render - we all know that KZ2 didn't deliver on that, no FPS did so far, imho and this next generation won't either.

It's there where I have my doubts with deep down, not the fidelity of its graphics but the seemingly AI behind it, that interacts so great and natural with its environment and gives it that especially epic and realistic feeling. But as we all know AI remains a field that has still quantum leaps to overcome - Aliens Colonial Marines, to quote a certainly somewhat unfair example demonstrates the core issue:

AI in games hasn't even found the sophistication that places them beyond something as basic as pathfinding issues, the plague of the age of dune and c&c.
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Last edited by Solothores : 02 February 2013 at 08:00 PM.
 
  02 February 2013
I have to agree with Solothores...
we are going forward really fast to achieve CG quality graphics in games but at this same time many problems like dumb AI , animation glitches and other aspects of the game still looks like we are in 90's

wish someone make AI plugin like Havok did physic one so everyone could use it
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