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Old 02-07-2013, 04:34 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz
Guys sorry the coming rantÖ

Right now in our industry we have this INSANE DOG EAT DOG mentality.
Like Gollum going after the ring, we have lost sight of everything else that should be important in life. The STUDIOS know about this, the sleaze ball clients know about this, and that is why frankly we get no respect at all.

Hell that is why when you see the movie credits we are listed AFTER THE CATERERS.

This stupid SELFISHNESS we share, this lack of a sence of community, is killing ALL OF US while the wrong people enrich themselves. I know so many artists in their 40's that are frankly scared beyond belief about their futures. And donít get me started about the older artists from an earlier generation, who I know are in danger of being homeless because of medial issues caused by work.

Something should be done about this, and I feel strongly that the organizations that are supposed to represent CG artists have a moral obligation to try to do something aout this. After all they helped to sell this LIE about the glamour of this industry.

I am not naive, I am not talking about taking the studios one on one. That is , not practical, and I donít see it even happening from this lot.What I am talking is to at least an ACKNOLEDGEMENT for artists groups that there is a HUGE problem in the industry right now.


For example, I LOVE ACM SIGGRAPH, but I have never seen a panel at the national conference about the HORRIBLE JOB CRISIS the industry is facing . (Please do correct me if I am wrong).

That is why I asked before if the organizations that should be representing artists could do something about this.

One example from another career is the American Chemical Society.
I have friends who are chemical scientists and are members of this organization.
They tell me that do events ALL THE TIME, locally and nationally to help their members get jobs, career advancement and training.

http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_CAREERS&node_id=87&use_sec=false&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=672a5718-25b9-4ea2-956c-01475046ca91

Any other ideas?


There's an interesting post on VFX Soldier about Scott Ross trying to get some support within the industry for a trade association...

http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/201.../#comment-14919

Turns out none of the big companies showed much interest :-(
 
Old 02-07-2013, 04:37 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel-B
Now at 29, I'm looking to finish up a degree in graphic design, or maybe teaching. My idealized dream is to still work in VFX, but because of all that has happened, I don't think that dream will ever happen.

Well not all is lost.

If you diversify your skillset and end up in a smaller design house, I am willing to bet that they will value your 3D/ Broadcast background. Here at work, the people I have recommended we hire tend to hand also diverse backgrounds.

There is a lot of outlets for content, and features is only one.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:49 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz
Well not all is lost.

If you diversify your skillset and end up in a smaller design house, I am willing to bet that they will value your 3D/ Broadcast background. Here at work, the people I have recommended we hire tend to hand also diverse backgrounds.

There is a lot of outlets for content, and features is only one.


Unfortunately, I think many will have to fall and the bottom will drop out before the "movers and shakers" in the industry can restructure the business model. The production workers are always cut first and its a real bitch. Obviously it's spiraling out of control and a crazy amount of talented individuals are falling to the waysides.

In the short term, I can't even fathom how VFX on a large scale will have to be reorganized and start a path of recovery that will promote growth and security. However, on the individual level, I think people have to start thinking smaller and outside their comfort zones or ideal goals. People will need to find smaller shops and in less glamorous industry to continue to make a living. The nice thing about smaller businesses and less known industries is that the overhead usually isn't so significant that dozens upon dozens loose their jobs. If people can find businesses that need their service, but have a larger business base other than art (like engineering, medical, product, etc) then many times their is cash flow to support less revenue generating positions.

I don't think we can hold educational institutions or industry responsible for "selling a dream". That's how people are motivated to excel and perform past the status quo. However, I do think educational institutions need to re-evaluate what industries they choose to gear their graduates to pursue.

Those that are just entering the field need to really take heed to the industry trends as well and are ultimately responsible for their own paths. In the 80s chemical engineering was the rage, even medical and law was a field that promised riches and wealth. That changed about 10-15 years ago as well.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 02-07-2013 at 04:53 PM.
 
Old 02-07-2013, 06:15 PM   #49
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So say you've all put the fear of a possible implosion in our industry a decade away, what sort of things could I do to prepare for it other than have a degree in something else?
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:33 PM   #50
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I would advice to diversify your skillsets, so you can showcase a diversified portfolio.
A portfolio that could be tailored to the needs of specific companies.
Art education, in my opinion, should be used to learn a STRONG FOUNDATION skills.
Color Theory, Design Theory, Art History, Anatomy, typography, Illustation Foundation are skillsets that an proper art program will teach you and you will use for the life of your art career.


Research Arch Viz, Medical Visualization, Forensic Animation, Broadcast Graphics, Webcasting, Illustration, Scientific Visualization, Virtual Sets, 3D Printing and see what they are looking for.



What tools they use, what they need?
You need to show an employer that you offer a lot of "bang for the buck".
That hiring you over say traditional designer will offer a lot of future benefits.

Be prepared to able to create strong custom portfolios for companies that might do smaller work.
And donít be afraid to try something outside your comfort zone.

For example to get my job I started volunteering at local film/commercial shoots as a way to expand my skills.

Hell join a 48hour film festival as a way to make contacts.



You goals should be right now,

1) Expand your skillsets

2) Develop STRONG portfolios that can be used in multiple jobs
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Last edited by RobertoOrtiz : 02-07-2013 at 06:37 PM.
 
Old 02-07-2013, 06:36 PM   #51
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Times are tough for artists in general because the money guys see us as a commodity IMO.

I can't see our situation getting better unless we can somehow gain commercial performance based bonuses. IMO, shops and individuals that create work that is profitable need to push for bonuses and or partial content ownership before new work is done. Hate to sound entitled, but we need "rock star clauses" for things to improve I think. Either that, or get into the content ownership business.

My perspective comes from losing my CG job two years ago. I helped a small military contractor break into serious training games. After performing minor miracles leading the art side of early low budget work, I was essentially demoted as we grew/restructured, then axed after they priced themselves out of the market and management had to let people go to protect their own jobs. I'm sure they will simply hire new artists and repeat the process if they start getting contracts again. I want to work in CG, but can make a better living doing something else...sorry, it's just business.


-Mike
 
Old 02-07-2013, 07:24 PM   #52
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CG TOOLS NEED TO BECOME A LOT MORE EFFICIENT TO COPE WITH THE CHANGING NATURE OF THE BUSINESS...

Sorry about the capitals, but this is the plain truth.

My 2 Cents..
 
Old 02-07-2013, 07:56 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DePaint
CG TOOLS NEED TO BECOME A LOT MORE EFFICIENT TO COPE WITH THE CHANGING NATURE OF THE BUSINESS...

Sorry about the capitals, but this is the plain truth.

My 2 Cents..


The changing nature of the business seems to be top level greed and bottom level disposable workers. Im not sure a good team of programmers can solve that. Maybe they'll automate everything eventually though.
 
Old 02-07-2013, 07:59 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Pauza

My perspective comes from losing my CG job two years ago. I helped a small military contractor break into serious training games. After performing minor miracles leading the art side of early low budget work, I was essentially demoted as we grew/restructured, then axed after they priced themselves out of the market and management had to let people go to protect their own jobs. I'm sure they will simply hire new artists and repeat the process if they start getting contracts again. I want to work in CG, but can make a better living doing something else...sorry, it's just business !


-Mike


Mike I feel for you but you have made a wise choice. For me its the end of the road I love what I do and have worked on some awesome films over the years but there's really nowhere to go anymore without leaving the family all the time. Every project I see the next batch of naive juniors thrown into the meat grinder and the endless line of people accepting less money for a contract. The twig snapped after I met a South American gentleman in the coffee line who had paid his own airfare to fly over, set up his own accommodation and was on a pittance for a sub 3 month contract with a very well known firm that people rave about. This has become an industry where artists are discarded at will and hired for the least amount possible. Nothing will change anytime soon.
The good news though is by the end of the year I aim to be walking away from this industry into my own start up .The best part is its nothing to do with VFX


B
 
Old 02-07-2013, 08:03 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr Bob
.The best part is its nothing to do with VFX


B


Good luck!
And keep us in the loop.

-R
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:09 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz
I would advice to diversify your skillsets, so you can showcase a diversified portfolio.
...


Thanks for the advice, appreciate it.

I guess the question is how determined am I to stay in the industry just to be in the industry. A lot of those things you listed I just don't enjoy, so I'd have to decide what I want out of my job when/if the time comes.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:35 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan
"Life of Pi" is by Ang Lee, not Steven Spielberg if what you're referring to is R&H's most recent high profile film.


No, I'm well aware who directed the movie.
I was referring to Spielberg as director who does his homework and makes movies on schedule. For this reason they also mentioned him and Denis Murren working on War of the Worlds in Variety article.


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Last edited by Als : 02-07-2013 at 09:30 PM.
 
Old 02-07-2013, 09:20 PM   #58
Mike Pauza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr Bob
Mike I feel for you but you have made a wise choice. For me its the end of the road I love what I do and have worked on some awesome films over the years but there's really nowhere to go anymore without leaving the family all the time. Every project I see the next batch of naive juniors thrown into the meat grinder and the endless line of people accepting less money for a contract. The twig snapped after I met a South American gentleman in the coffee line who had paid his own airfare to fly over, set up his own accommodation and was on a pittance for a sub 3 month contract with a very well known firm that people rave about. This has become an industry where artists are discarded at will and hired for the least amount possible. Nothing will change anytime soon.
The good news though is by the end of the year I aim to be walking away from this industry into my own start up .The best part is its nothing to do with VFX


B


mr Bob:

Thanks, and good luck with your new endeavor.
Most new businesses fail, but the ones that succeed can be financially rewarding.
Also, hope you can enjoy your last year of VFX.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 12:13 AM   #59
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Whats interesting about the Variety article is the news that the studios, in an effort to save their films in production and keep to the release dates are putting money back into the vfx studio to keep it afloat albeit a loan. This is a sign and it speaks volumes. The proof that something is wrong is right there. Studios not making enough money to keep afloat between working on multi-million dollar projects is shameful. I hope it changes and some sustainability comes out of it all..

I wonder if this will affect the Oscar nomination for Life of Pie? Imagine the speech if they win! or better yet.. "R+H couldn't make it tonight, they are trying to save their business from going under."
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Last edited by vfx : 02-08-2013 at 12:24 AM.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 01:09 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DePaint
CG TOOLS NEED TO BECOME A LOT MORE EFFICIENT TO COPE WITH THE CHANGING NATURE OF THE BUSINESS...

Sorry about the capitals, but this is the plain truth.

My 2 Cents..


Your endless, and frankly clueless software evangelism is really getting a bit tiresome.

And you're wrong. The tools have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the problems the VFX industry is currently facing. Stop imagining that Maya is inefficient just so you can push your opensource/Blender agenda here - it's becoming ridiculous.
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