Adobe Will Only Offer Photoshop CS6 Upgrade Price to CS5 Owners

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Old 12 December 2011   #61
Krita

I'm just wondering, since I see the mentions of free / open-source tools, if anyone has tried Krita.

It's not at the level that Photoshop currently is with all of it's filters, and tools (Well from my experience) but it's still a rather nice image editing application and it supports up to 32-bit full float image editing.

It would be nice to have nodal based editing, but I don't think it would change too much compared to using a layer based system, having a well featured API and making it very customizable, and extendible would be excellent though (If it's not already like that).
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Old 12 December 2011   #62
Originally Posted by EricM: Adobe may rest too much on its laurels, but I guess you haven't seen the sneak previews where they showcase lightfield photography, 3D reconstruction, motion blur removal, automatic voice-over sync, spatial layer stacking, content aware object removal (on top of my head).

All jaw-dropping stuff and presented by very likeable chaps.

Whether it will ever see the light of day as a commercial app is another story, but don't buy all what Jobs said at face value. He wasn't a saint either...


Adobe aquired the content aware functionality (seam carving) from Shai Avidan and Ariel Shamir. They integrated this to more or less give CS5 a major feature attraction.

The problem is the major software companies are forced to do this.
It gives marketing a one line reason for customers to buy or upgrade to new software:

"upgrade to CS5 so that you can remove things in your favourite photos you dont like, with just 2 clicks!".

Now the same thing wont work with a productive feature like node based compositing tools.
First you have to explain how to use layers, then why layers are not so great for certain things and then what nodes are, then how nodes are better than stacked layers.
Sure, if you mention node based features to professional digital artists they will probably buy it in a flash, but what about the millions of hobbyists that use photoshop for its liquify and heal tools? why would they need nodes? professional artists are outnumbered by these hobbyists (which is a good thing, because then we wouldnt be able to make a living!) but the bad news is that adobe wouldnt make nearly as much money if its userbase was just pro.

I honestly believe adobe is going the way of apple. Go for mass-appeal and ease of use and the pro users will either use new features or not. Discontinuing a wonderful program like shake and changing a perfectly usable program like Final Cut into a piece of rubbish are just some of the things that are due to the evergrowing hobbyist market.

Moving to open source is a great idea, but I dont believe its necessary.

why?

Zbrush & Mari... these programs are absolutely amazing and together they are making photoshop more and more redundant in my workflow.

Heck, even for photography I seem to only use Lightroom (same as aperture) and I'm just waiting for picassa to add better camera raw functionality.

Also, who says this move by Adobe is permanent? Let them try and see if this upgrade system works... if it fails, then it will have to invite us back through major price drops/free features etc. Everyone wins

Just some of my thoughts
 
Old 12 December 2011   #63
Originally Posted by Syndicate: Sure, if you mention node based features to professional digital artists they will probably buy it in a flash, but what about the millions of hobbyists that use photoshop for its liquify and heal tools? why would they need nodes? professional artists are outnumbered by these hobbyists (which is a good thing, because then we wouldnt be able to make a living!) but the bad news is that adobe wouldnt make nearly as much money if its userbase was just pro.


TBH i think even if the number of hobbyists that use photoshop is far greater than the professionals, the number of hobbyists with legit copies of photoshop is either roughly the same or less than the number of professional users. So it doesn't make sense for them to target the hobbyist market.
 
Old 12 December 2011   #64
Originally Posted by ChukChuk: TBH i think even if the number of hobbyists that use photoshop is far greater than the professionals, the number of hobbyists with legit copies of photoshop is either roughly the same or less than the number of professional users. So it doesn't make sense for them to target the hobbyist market.


With this I agree
 
Old 12 December 2011   #65
Looks to me as if Adobe is working hard on loosing sypathy and loyalty from their customer base this year.

I would have preferred it if they surprised me with a PS realease with features that really blow my mind and want me desperately to have that software, no matter what price.

Adobe politics look kind of desperate to me--- or stupid at least.

I use PS since version 3 I think.
I am still using CS3, its a good app, very stable.

But nowhere near perfect. Haven`t upgraded, mainly because there hardly was anything in the updates I really wanted and could not get from other apps I already own.
And for my user profile PS has certainly lost its "if you only have one app it must be PS" status it used to have years ago.
Too many other interesting apps these days worth spending my money on.
And I only upgrade apps for good reasons -to get useful features- and not to stay in some sort of adobe club.

i.e: I work a lot as an 2D-illustrator and after giving it a try I found myself using Manga Studio more and more over the last years. Actually there is no way I could live without that app any more, it has doubled my productivity. I use Photoshop no more to digitally draw these days, as it is clumsy and ineffective compared to Manga Studio when you use it to draw.
(One of the best features is that a project there can contain a whole book of pages and that any page layer can have a different dpi resolution. Also the vector drawing, though not perfect, kicks a*.)

PS is still nicer for coloring and compositing and retouching and I like the video feature in PS professional (though I remember how disappointed I was about the laughable timeline and lack of audio---not really worth the tag "professional"). But it has collected quite some digital rust.

I think Adobe has lost touch with its userbase a bit.
At least with us 2D/3DIllustrators/Animators.

And now, as Flash seems to die for sure (so Steve was right I guess)--- I think it is a really bad point in time to act arrogantly towards customers.

Personally, I don`t think I will update now, only to not loose my update path. Screw that. Let`s see how the market looks in a year or two.

I will continue to work with trusty CS3 and maybe invest the money I save in 3DCoat or this cool normal map 2D-paint program (forgot the name). Apps that can give me a boost to be more creative or competitive.

Or in any well-crafted HTML 5 authoring app that shows up.
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Last edited by wuensch : 12 December 2011 at 09:05 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2011   #66
Originally Posted by Syndicate: Also, who says this move by Adobe is permanent? Let them try and see if this upgrade system works... if it fails, then it will have to invite us back through major price drops/free features etc. Everyone wins


What exactly constitutes this new pricing system "working?" My guess this is part of a bigger sales process and has absolutely no bearing on what customers like or want. It simply can't fail because they will never call a change of course a "failure." Adobe has pretty much shown they don't care about their customers. They're just becoming another Autodesk since they are driven by laughable marketing "upgrades" and know their customers have no real choice.
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Old 12 December 2011   #67
Originally Posted by wuensch: I will continue to work with trusty CS3 and maybe invest the money I save in 3DCoat or this cool normal map 2D-paint program (forgot the name). Apps that can give me a boost to be more creative or competitive.

Or in any well-crafted HTML 5 authoring app that shows up.


you talking about NDO? the plugin for photoshop?
 
Old 12 December 2011   #68
Originally Posted by Ivan D Young: I find it interesting that you guys find it interesting.

Well I bet you could fill an email quickly with suggestions.

I think Photoshop is Ubiqutous, but I think PS could be ripe for a competitor.

The thing is that PS has a Core competency that appeals to hard working professionals to the very meager part time casual users. If anyone could hit close to that core they could have a winning thing.


Node based scriptable photo editing/painting would be a god-send. Almost every I know uses Photoshop because they "have to". Let's face it, after you have used node-based image editing or comping software, going back to Photoshop is like working with stone and chisel.

I think the time is coming ripe for a real alternative workflow to Photoshop's.
 
Old 12 December 2011   #69
Originally Posted by ChukChuk: TBH i think even if the number of hobbyists that use photoshop is far greater than the professionals, the number of hobbyists with legit copies of photoshop is either roughly the same or less than the number of professional users. So it doesn't make sense for them to target the hobbyist market.


Sure, Especially agencies, production houses etc. However you are forgetting that a lot of these places and the pro market in general lags behind in upgrades. We dont upgrade straight away, especially not when our workflow/setups are perfect for what we need to do. I remember reading about an artists still using an ancient version of photoshop simply because it had everything he needed (for matte painting) - Brushes, colours and layers.

With prosumers (hobbyists), totally different story. I have seen forums filled with posts about how they cannot wait for the new "deblurring" feature for photoshop. Everything is about the one button fix. Features that professionals can rarely use reliably.

So to sum it all up, Adobe prioritise marketable "features" instead of workflow improvements as it has proven to sell their new software more effectively. Adobe are simply victim to their shareholders who want to see quarterly profits.
 
Old 12 December 2011   #70
You raise a good point.
 
Old 12 December 2011   #71
Originally Posted by ambient-whisper: you talking about NDO? the plugin for photoshop?


Oh, was that a plug for PS?
Need to check it out again, must have the link somewhere in my "interesting and possibly valuable" link collection:-)

Referring to the last poster:
I know a guy who works as an illustrator with PS6 and he is happy that the airbrush has an icon for itself,
another one with PS 7 (who also uses Manga studio more and more these days after I introduced it to him, too) .

They simply have not needed to upgrade up to now because because I assume Adobe considers Illustrators not target users any more and hardly delivers anything worth the update price for them.

Lets take another example from Manga Studio concerning features that attract me as an illustrator:

How cool would it be to have rulers in PS-- I mean rulers that you can put on the picture where you want, rotate, form curves or whatever and along which you can still draw with your own brush flow?
Painter had those ages ago. MS has them.

I am not sure about CS5 but I have not seen something like that in the features list anywhere, although it should be easy to implement.

Or what about a paint bucket that fills a line art exactly to the centre of the line (in the line layer above) and a magic wand that can close gaps if wanted? (though I think CS5 can close gaps if I remember right).

Or a button that simply flips the page for checking the art left right or updide down (I know you can flip the whole page, but in Manga Studio just the graphic on screen flips lightning fast on button push so you can check, unpress and continue).

List can be continued quite a bit.
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Old 12 December 2011   #72
For all of these large software companies, the bottom line is all that matters. If profits are up a year from now and the subscription model is considered a success, then we may be seeing others following the same formula. I just hope that Adobe doesn't decide to go 100% subscription only for all of their products.
 
Old 12 December 2011   #73
Quote: "We dont upgrade straight away, especially not when our workflow/setups are perfect for what we need to do. I remember reading about an artists still using an ancient version of photoshop simply because it had everything he needed (for matte painting) - Brushes, colours and layers."


If you are strictly a creative shop or freelancer then of course you can run any older version of the adobe suite you like .
I still run CS3 and After effects CS3 .

However I do remember my bygone years in the graphic design&prepress industry when we would be forced to upgrade, at the very least, Adobe Illustrator& Indesign just to be able to open the clients ( latest version) files for preflight.


Cheers
 
Old 12 December 2011   #74
After a bit of thinking, contrary to what I have said before, using the demo checking pros and cons I have decided to downgrade from my CS3 suite (I do only rarely need the other apps, especially since flash got the sack) and update only Photoshop extended to 5.1 (from my old CS2 solo Photoshop as they dont update from a suite to a solo app), mainly because of 64bit support and because video layers now have sound which I consider very valuable (though it should have been there when video layers were introduced from the start).
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Old 12 December 2011   #75
Quote: Also, who says this move by Adobe is permanent? Let them try and see if this upgrade system works... if it fails, then it will have to invite us back through major price drops/free features etc. Everyone wins


As far as the "upgrade price only from the latest version" bit, I'm guessing they're not going to budge on that. Nearly every single graphic designer I know gets every update as fast as possible. Some of them legitimately need the updates, while most of the others are just blindly accepting the updates because "Hey, it's the newest version". In fact, a lot of the graphic design studios around here have already been on a subscription service for some time and end up having their stuff automatically updated overnight. In speaking with many of them, they aren't aware of any of this and don't appear to care so like I said, I'm guessing that bit is going to be a permanant thing. When you add that to the fact that After Effects files are not (and are probably never likely to be) backwards compatable, it makes an even stronger case for that not changing.

Personally, I think the real question is with the cloud nonsense. How long will programs like PS stay OFF the cloud, and will the main customer base be willing to even use the cloud? I know at my place, the second a program even looks in a cloud's direction, I.T. incinerates said program with extreme prejudice.
 
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