BBC: Meet CG animator Paulo Machado, the man who has lived in hospital for 45 years

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  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by leigh: It's a very positive story and frankly I think it's a story that's always worth telling

That's the thing. I think that, in this messed up world, these stories are important to hear. In moderation.

Just as you can become desensitized to tragedy by watching the news all day, you can just as easily become bored of the more uplifting stories. Worse yet, it can color your world view. By doing the former, you can become convinced that the entire world sucks. By doing the latter, you can become convinced that there's a happy ending and silver linings around every corner. It's never quite that clear cut and life is far more complex.

Originally Posted by leigh: And at any rate, he has plenty of time to practice his craft and improve.

And that's really one element of my earlier point. Constructive critique is good and we shouldn't be afraid of it, regardless of whether the person is perfectly healthy or infirmed. Maybe it's just that I lack tact or something, but I've never been one to shy away from saying what's on my mind.

FTR, I was referring to his thumbnails, not the 3D shots. Just so that we're clear. They're serviceable, but only just. I still think that the visual narrative could be punched up some, allowing for a cleaner read.

Originally Posted by leigh: Do you also go around trashing five year old children's drawings?

Y'know.... Whenever I get a drawing from my 5yo nephew... Here's what I do.

First off, I commend him and thank him. He's obviously got a passion for art and loves to do what his father and uncle do.

Second, I try to offer him some helpful tips. Naturally, I'll phrase it in a funny way like, "Hey! Since when is my head that big? Did you give me green skin and a mohawk?" (Kid loves his mohawks. ) He laughs and he tries something different next time. Usually something even weirder. He's still having fun so that's all that matters.

I won't ever discourage him. I won't ever be cruel and tear him down. He's pretty much got unfettered access to my Cintiq and Sketchbook Pro whenever he wants. I just realize that, yeah, I'm dealing with a 5 year old. HOW I handle him is different, but my critiques themselves really aren't.

I think that it's important for children to learn to handle honest criticism. The earlier the better. Not to sound like an old man, but this generation of kids is kinda soft. It's important to encourage and uplift, but not to outright lie.

I always see parents telling kids that they can be whatever they want and that they're good at everything. That's just not realistic or even true. Hey. I suck at geography and history. I will never be a cartographer or archaeologist. I get lost in thought and can't remember what I ate for breakfast. I accept that I have limitations. I try to transcend them, but there are certain things I will never be great at. Instead, I'd much rather focus on my natural aptitudes. That's why my parents strongly encouraged my explorations in the maths and sciences.

It bothers me when every kid gets a trophy in a sporting event and they're all winners. I don't get that. How can you savor victory when you've never known defeat? Call me old fashioned, but trophies are only for winners, not participants.

That brings me back to the story at hand. I commend this guy for transcending his physical limitations. I commend him for pursuing something he's passionate about. However, given that he's still on a journey, I think that it's a bit early to write epic ballads in his honor. Sorry, Chewie. No medal for you this day. Kudos for joining the party though.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 08 August 2013 at 06:07 PM.
 
  08 August 2013
Where is anybody handing out trophies to this guy and calling him a winner?

I personally hate the "everyone is a special snowflake" culture too, but I don't see that in this particular case. Not even remotely. Honestly, I can't help wondering whether Cookepuss and Malcomvexxed even read the article, because his animation project is mentioned only near the bottom and is not the focus of the article.
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  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by leigh: Where is anybody handing out trophies to this guy and calling him a winner?

I was referring to the overabundance of human interest stories and the near automatic and predictable stance people take. It's nearly impossible to criticize somebody in one of these stories without looking like a mustache twirling bad guy.

Goodness forbid that the person dies. They automatically become an untouchable and flawless saint at that point. (Notice how when young people die that they were always A students? As a kid, I used to joke that my key to immortality would be a solid C average. ... Yeah. I got smacked across the head for that... hard. Needless to say, I did well in school.)

My point being, the message being sent when you can't say that something isn't perfect is that, in fact, it is. Those with kinder hearts might just say that the quality doesn't matter and isn't the point. That's kind of a cop out. Quality should always matter.

Regardless, I'll just leave this off with a quote from the nurse:

"My heart is full of happiness that he could achieve one of his objectives"

I'm a firm believer in the idea that quality and completion should always go hand in hand. However, I do feel that people DO have something to learn from this. Set goals for yourself and actively pursue them. To me, more than the triumph of the human spirit, that is the take away.

Originally Posted by leigh: Honestly, I can't help wondering whether Cookepuss and Malcomvexxed even read the article, because his animation project is mentioned only near the bottom and is not the focus of the article.

Yes. I did read the article. However, given that this is a CG oriented board, do you really expect us not to even address that aspect?

Like I said, I'm not going to flame this guy. I'm sure the end results will speak for themselves. Maybe I'm just being too hard on what is simply work product, which isn't always pretty. My comments stand, but I will lighten up. Don't worry. I'm not trying to troll or anything.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 08 August 2013 at 06:54 PM.
 
  08 August 2013
FWIW, here's one of his current WIPs.





Not too bad. I can see a few things that look pretty wonky, but I'll reserve further comment until the full thing is finished. I'm liking his page on FB anyway.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 08 August 2013 at 07:00 PM.
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by cookepuss: Yes. I did read the article. However, given that this is a CG oriented board, do you really expect us not to even address that aspect?


How can you address something when you have absolutely nothing to go on? I mean, sure you went and dug up a shot that shows a viewport now, but the original article shows absolutely nothing of his CG work, yet you and Malcomvexxed just had to come out and criticise the guy pre-emptively. What's wrong with you?

Regardless of the quality of this guy's work, which remains entirely to be seen (the article can't even seem to make up its mind about whether it's going to be CG or stop motion, so we don't even know what medium it's going to be), at least he's doing something with his life. What are you doing, apart from slagging off disabled people on a web forum, eh? Big Internet Tough Guy, hiding behind anonymity.
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  08 August 2013
Leigh expressed much better what I wanted to say.
 
  08 August 2013
Yeah, I'm still not sure what you'd be criticizing from that article. It doesn't show anything. Unless you're talking about the storyboards but c'mon, you should see the crap quality I put into a storyboard sometimes. Which you aren't of course because its crap. I have no problem judging the guy fairly when its time but for now it is quite a bit more than a feel good piece. The guy was stricken with polio! That isn't something that you hear about every day. Let's not get so cynical that we can't recognize something truly remarkable when it does happen. Heaven knows being around the disabled community 24/7 I tend to get emotionally fatigued about it but you just need to step back, take a breath a see this guy as an individual and not just "another story".

Originally Posted by leigh: What are you doing, apart from slagging off disabled people on a web forum, eh? Big Internet Tough Guy, hiding behind anonymity.
Whoa Leigh, ease up a bit.
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  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by cookepuss: Not too bad. I can see a few things that look pretty wonky, but I'll reserve further comment until the full thing is finished. I'm liking his page on FB anyway.


Most clueless "damning with faint praise" comment I've seen this year. Just...oy.
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  08 August 2013
>>ORIGINAL POST DELETED BY ME<<

You want to rage on and erroneously think of me as some anonymous, hack troll, Leigh? If that makes you feel better, go with it. I'm not going to play along.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 08 August 2013 at 09:52 PM.
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by leigh: What a spectacularly horrid post. Where do you even see his animation work to have an opinion on it?

This isn't a "sob story" as you so heartlessly put it, it's actually, on the contrary, a story about how a guy in an extraordinarily difficult position is using a creative outlet to deal with his life. It's a very positive story and frankly I think it's a story that's always worth telling, as creativity can be an incredible cartharsis. I don't think the quality of the result is even relevant here, the story is that someone is actually doing something constructive with his time instead of wasting away in a hospital bed. And at any rate, he has plenty of time to practice his craft and improve.

Do you also go around trashing five year old children's drawings?


What's hilarious is (a) that you're comparing this to trashing a five year old's drawings and think I'm the one being crude and (b) that in your usual sanctimonious idiocy you assume I didn't even read the article - when in reality I read the article looked up the kickstarter-ish campaign it mentions as you know.. the basis for the article, and watched the video which includes a preview of the show they're trying to create. Your stupidity is exhausting.

http://catarse.me/pt/leca

Animatics start at 1:20 or so.

Also lol @ this whole "it's not a sob story, but the quality of the product doesn't matter". You guys are funny.

Last edited by malcolmvexxed : 08 August 2013 at 11:04 PM.
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by leigh: Where is anybody handing out trophies to this guy and calling him a winner?

I personally hate the "everyone is a special snowflake" culture too, but I don't see that in this particular case. Not even remotely. Honestly, I can't help wondering whether Cookepuss and Malcomvexxed even read the article, because his animation project is mentioned only near the bottom and is not the focus of the article.


It's the focus of why it's posted on this site and was originally posted in CG discussion. Again, this stuff is obvious. Or are we just posting random sympathetic stories now and not concerning ourselves with the nature of the board? If that's the new edict let me know, I have tons of articles I'll start posting where we don't even discuss CG.
 
  08 August 2013
I seriously regret having posted, and for the record my issue was with this being a flat quote + link in GD rather than in news (something I've been campaigning against internally for a while as not having a place in GD, longer story), and that was amended what, 10 minutes from my posting tops?

I also happen not to be a fan of the "everybody is a winner" culture, but I have to say some of the criticism seems to be intentionally controversial in fighting that for the sake of a good argument rather than because the article might be an example of such culture.

Again, I regret my original post, but it'd be cowardly to not fess up to a mistake and deleting it, so I'll just leave it there to remind myself of not doing it again

I agree with Leigh there seems to be a very weird counter-campaigning feel to some parts of this thread that have little basis to exist, and are excessively harsh.

I have read the article, I have checked out the campaign, and the part I agree with Leigh on and making the harshness undue is that not ANYWHERE the guy is being handed trophies, having his work praised, or being given a higher par for his situation and put in the same league as anything else.
I don't think it deserves campaigning against as a condescendingly politically correct sob story, it's not, and I think the aggressive tones (mine from my first post included, although in a different context) are unjustified.
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  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: I seriously regret having posted, and for the record my issue was with this being a flat quote + link in GD rather than in news (something I've been campaigning against internally for a while as not having a place in GD, longer story), and that was amended what, 10 minutes from my posting tops?

I also happen not to be a fan of the "everybody is a winner" culture, but I have to say some of the criticism seems to be intentionally controversial in fighting that for the sake of a good argument rather than because the article might be an example of such culture.

Again, I regret my original post, but it'd be cowardly to not fess up to a mistake and deleting it, so I'll just leave it there to remind myself of not doing it again

I agree with Leigh there seems to be a very weird counter-campaigning feel to some parts of this thread that have little basis to exist, and are excessively harsh.

I have read the article, I have checked out the campaign, and the part I agree with Leigh on and making the harshness undue is that not ANYWHERE the guy is being handed trophies, having his work praised, or being given a higher par for his situation and put in the same league as anything else.
I don't think it deserves campaigning against as a condescendingly politically correct sob story, it's not, and I think the aggressive tones (mine from my first post included, although in a different context) are unjustified.


It's not intentionally controversial, I just don't agree with posting tangentially related articles and then being mad when the actual theme of the forum is brought into discussion. And this moderator intimidation bullshit leigh keeps trying to pull is a joke.

If it's NOT a politically correct sob story, can someone who speaks Portugese read the comments section and tell me what people are saying? My guess would be all the comments are about something other than the actual animation, kind of like the people mincing around in this thread saying the product quality is unimportant because he's handicapped and comparing it to the drawings of a 5 year old. That BTW is extremely insulting.

http://catarse.me/pt/leca#comments
 
  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by malcolmvexxed: It's not intentionally controversial, I just don't agree with posting tangentially related articles and then being mad when the actual theme of the forum is brought into discussion.

I agree it had no place in GD, and in fact it was promptly moved (I didn't do it myself because it doesn't feel appropriate to criticize something and also take indiscriminate action based on an opinion).
It might have a place in news. I was more convinced it didn't have one initially, hence my post I regre the tone of, than I was after giving it some thought and a better read.
News is supposed to be fast moving and CG related, and I think this has plenty ground covered to be considered CG related, and I should have seen it sooner.
It's not tech related, or software related, but it IS CG related.

Bear with me here, but from your posts it sounded a lot more like you had an issue with these stories in general than you did with whether they deserve featuring or not.
I'm not saying that's what you posted and implying you are now backpedalling, I'm purely stating what it came across as.
From there you pursued fairly aggressively, and probably did a disservice to your opinion and what you wanted to bring up (pertinent subject or not posted here) in first place.

Given MY track record this is dangerously edging towards pots, kettles and soot and all, so I'll leave it here. Hopefully what I'm saying is clear enough.

Quote: And this moderator intimidation bullshit leigh keeps trying to pull is a joke.

That's really something you should take up with the site's management if it's such an issue. I can't quite see it like that, but I have an obvious bias.
Airing it in the thread and shifting the discussion does no good to the site, the thread, or the point you're trying to make.
This isn't sweeping what to you think is an issue under a carpet, this is a matter of posting rules about avoiding outright insults being broken.

Again, if you have a point to make in those regards it should go through the proper channels. We apply some rules (such as the ones about repeated openly personal insults) indiscriminately, we've even applied them to our own mod team in the past, believe it or not, with people demoted from their position or even, in one circumstance, banned for a year.
Whether Leigh was too aggressive or not I'm not in a position to judge, but you did stoop pretty damn low here, man, surely you can see that and how it's a problem.

Quote: If it's NOT a politically correct sob story, can someone who speaks Portugese read the comments section and tell me what people are saying? My guess would be all the comments are about something other than the actual animation, kind of like the people mincing around in this thread saying the product quality is unimportant because he's handicapped and comparing it to the drawings of a 5 year old. That BTW is extremely insulting.

http://catarse.me/pt/leca#comments

It would be a politically correct sob story had it been about a man with disabilities producing amazing work (when it really isn't), but that's not the content or the tone at all.

The comments are to be left out, author and linking websites have no power over those, the article itself though is about pretty much everything else except the quality of the man's work, and the fact it's CG he found an outlet in and not writing, painting or something else, on hindsight, gives it plenty legs to stand on to at least get a passing mention in news, a section intentionally chronologically ordered with no page order bumping so that much can be posted in it, including occasionally something that's borderline tangential.

And that's more or less why I regret how I posted my first post, making the exact same mistake you did (I had a point, I formulated it like shit, it came across as general dickery regardless of intention). There is such a thing as admitting when you've gone too far though, and you have been, coolly and sincerely speaking, way too aggressive.
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  08 August 2013
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: I agree it had no place in GD, and in fact it was promptly moved (I didn't do it myself because it doesn't feel appropriate to criticize something and also take indiscriminate action based on an opinion).
It might have a place in news. I was more convinced it didn't have one initially, hence my post I regre the tone of, than I was after giving it some thought and a better read.
News is supposed to be fast moving and CG related, and I think this has plenty ground covered to be considered CG related, and I should have seen it sooner.
It's not tech related, or software related, but it IS CG related.


Except the part where mentioning the CG part of the story and pointing out the flaws, which is done in EVERY SINGLE CG ARTICLE HERE, is frowned on. Do I need rehash how that's happened?

Quote: Bear with me here, but from your posts it sounded a lot more like you had an issue with these stories in general than you did with whether they deserve featuring or not...

From there you pursued fairly aggressively, and probably did a disservice to your opinion and what you wanted to bring up (pertinent subject or not posted here) in first place.


Nothing I've said is nearly as aggressive towards any poster here as Leigh's comments. Please don't waste my time talking about aggression being out of line just because I won't cower to people and their lazy groupthink.

Quote: This isn't sweeping what to you think is an issue under a carpet, this is a matter of posting rules about avoiding outright insults being broken.

Again, if you have a point to make in those regards it should go through the proper channels. We apply some rules (such as the ones about repeated openly personal insults) indiscriminately, we've even applied them to our own mod team in the past, believe it or not, with people demoted from their position or even, in one circumstance, banned for a year.
Whether Leigh was too aggressive or not I'm not in a position to judge, but you did stoop pretty damn low here, man, surely you can see that and how it's a problem.


This is the ridiculousness I'm talking about. You have zero issue saying I'm overaggressive but aren't sure if Leigh is because you're not in the position to judge?

Here are his comments from the thread

"at least he's doing something with his life. What are you doing, apart from slagging off disabled people on a web forum, eh? Big Internet Tough Guy, hiding behind anonymity."

"you and Malcomvexxed just had to come out and criticise the guy pre-emptively. What's wrong with you? "

"Honestly, I can't help wondering whether Cookepuss and Malcomvexxed even read the article"

"What a spectacularly horrid post. "

If you aren't in a position to judge those comments you're absolutely not in a position to judge mine, so I assume you have no opinions on whether I'm too aggressive and want to take that back as well.

Quote: There is such a thing as admitting when you've gone too far though, and you have been, coolly and sincerely speaking, way too aggressive.


No.
 
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