Lucas now "enhancing" THX-1138

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  05 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
Personally I think Lucas can do whatever he wants with his body of work.

I believe strongly in the creator right to do whatever he or she wants with their films, before and after they have been exhibited.

After all, they are THEIR individual visions, and we are just along for the ride.

-R



True. But Lucas' manipulation of film history, like making the original versions of Star Wars completely unavailable, not only erases the true milestones in motion picture cinema, but is also a slight to the work of countless artists (like ourselves), without whom none of it may have happened, and whose hard work may be lost forever in it's original form.

But the irony is that everytime he tries to "update" his work, it is self defeating. The digital alterations to the first Star Wars dated quicker and more harshly than any matte paintings and miniatures from the 77' version.

I say... do what you want, but don't be a megalomaniac, do what ever you want to the film, but allow film historians and students to view the origianl to understand and appreciate why and how it was important at the time.

Sometimes something is bigger than yourself and you need to show a little humility in the face of history.

Last edited by jishjosh : 05 May 2004 at 07:23 PM.
 
  05 May 2004
Re: JishJosh.

I firmly agree with Roberto. However, you have made a valid & sensible point. In the interest of preservation - its wise to make the original editions avaliable.

I'm thankful that I still have a version which doesn't have Sy Snootles ruining the Palace sequence! That was worse than Jar Jar Binks!
 
  05 May 2004
I completely agree with Jishjosh.
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  05 May 2004
What a film! Some scenes were done at LAX, the LA subway, early in construction. The cameras were technovision eclair camaflexes, the same as "the good bad and the ugly." The sound is great, because of Walter Murch. Ford GT40 race cars instead of space ships. Robert Duvall. There are so many great moments in this movie. The 16mm short he did in film school is just as good.
 
  05 May 2004
the student film is included on the dvd, hopefullfy it will be left unchanged.
I can only pray that there will be a way to watch it without the cg.

I think hes crazy, but atleast I still have my original vhs copy.
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  05 May 2004
Again I still believe the creator has exclusive rights on what he or she can do with their creations.
Once you start putting obstacles in this relationship (i.e. the rights of the audience) you get into a very slippery road.

One good example are book authors.

They regularly make revisions all the time to their books.
And it is usual that previous versions will automatically not be available at all to the general public.

Here is an example.
Tolkien produced different versions of "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit".

And those earlier versions are unavailable, because for Tolkien his last revision of LOTR is the definitive version.

His universe, his rules.

And more recently” Stephen King" recently announced that he will be changing certain parts of his earlier books on the "Dark Tower"
Series. This is becuase he realized that he ommited certain things on the earlier books that matter at the end of the saga.

Again his universe, his rules.


The way I see it Lucas, as the creator of his own universes, can do anything he wants.

-R
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Last edited by RobertoOrtiz : 05 May 2004 at 04:25 AM.
 
  05 May 2004
amen RobertoOrtiz, amen.
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  05 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
Again I still believe the creator has exclusive rights on what he or she can do with their creations.
Once you start putting obstacles in this relationship (i.e. the rights of the audience) you get into a very slippery road.

One good example are book authors.

They regularly make revisions all the time to their books.
And it is usual that previous versions will automatically not be available at all to the general public.

Here is an example.
Tolkien produced different versions of "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit".

And those earlier versions are unavailable, because for Tolkien his last revision of LOTR is the definitive version.

His universe, his rules.

And more recently” Stephen King" recently announced that he will be changing certain parts of his earlier books on the "Dark Tower"
Series. This is becuase he realized that he ommited certain things on the earlier books that matter at the end of the saga.

Again his universe, his rules.


The way I see it Lucas, as the creator of his own universes, can do anything he wants.

-R


In the end I do agree that he can do what he wants. But given the fanbase of the original films and the outcry to at least let us get good DVD copies of the original films as WELL as the special editions, for him to just outright deny people that is kind of a slap in the face.

I mean I understand making consistency changes. But he's doing a little more than that. And the originals have become classics while there is obvious distaste for the special editions.

Yes it is his universe and yes he can do with it what he wants. But he's burning a lot of bridges and slapping a lot of the people who got him where he is right in the kisser. And that's just insulting and really kinda ruins the magic of the whole Star Wars experience. I have a slight problem with Lucas' total selfishness and inability to recognize this. Or he is recognizing this and is just ignoring it. The whole thing is very mastubatory.

Last edited by BonoMan : 05 May 2004 at 09:05 AM.
 
  05 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
Again I still believe the creator has exclusive rights on what he or she can do with their creations.
Once you start putting obstacles in this relationship (i.e. the rights of the audience) you get into a very slippery road.

One good example are book authors.

They regularly make revisions all the time to their books.
And it is usual that previous versions will automatically not be available at all to the general public.

Here is an example.
Tolkien produced different versions of "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit".

And those earlier versions are unavailable, because for Tolkien his last revision of LOTR is the definitive version.

His universe, his rules.

And more recently” Stephen King" recently announced that he will be changing certain parts of his earlier books on the "Dark Tower"
Series. This is becuase he realized that he ommited certain things on the earlier books that matter at the end of the saga.

Again his universe, his rules.


The way I see it Lucas, as the creator of his own universes, can do anything he wants.

-R


This is simply repeating what you said earlier, only reworded. Without even addressing some other valid points brought up in the discussion, or bringing up new points.

I'm feeling a little intimidated, saying this to a Mod, but...

It smacks of just trying to have the last word.
 
  05 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by butar
This is simply repeating what you said earlier, only reworded. Without even addressing some other valid points brought up in the discussion, or bringing up new points.

I'm feeling a little intimidated, saying this to a Mod, but...

It smacks of just trying to have the last word.


You should be intimidated!

<<evil laugh>>
What was that Ip address?


Seriously, we just have different viewpoints.
That is cool.


I do concede that it is a big issue, and that Lucas could have avoided some HUGE landmines it he had made the earlier version available.


But that will not happen.

But I do defend his choice to to a very dumb thing.


-R
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Last edited by RobertoOrtiz : 05 May 2004 at 08:14 PM.
 
  05 May 2004
Quote: slapping a lot of the people who got him where he is right in the kisser.


Please don't start with "we made him" crap. That stuff doesn't fly and never has. He owes us absolutely nothing.
 
  05 May 2004
George....just walk away. Just walk away.

Its funny after watching the trailer, not having seen this film in years, its amazing how relevent it is to todays current American Politcal Climate. Perhaps thats why george felt it would be an interesting project to rerelease.
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Last edited by chudofsinister : 05 May 2004 at 01:31 PM.
 
  05 May 2004
Ruining with revision...

Just thinking out loud for a moment. For me this isn't about rights to change works. That's academic. It''s not about keeping the fans happy. What I'm wondering about, it the propensity to return to a piece of finished piece of work, and damage it by meddling with it. The creative fire that imbues a creation is not something that can necessarily be called up again twenty years later. People change as they grow older. Perspectives change. They do not necessarily improve. Modern techniques do not equate with quality. Geogre's changes to Episode 4 (the original SW) left a bad taste in my mouth. The changes to Solo's character specifically took some of the edge off the character that made him so appealing. Sometimes, the best part of a creation can be that "happy accident", and to try and eliminate it for the sake of your personal vision sterilizes and lessens it's value. I would think that a master like Lucas would know that basic fact.
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  05 May 2004
I agree about perspectives changing, and any alterations might not be for the better on some levels, but in the case of this re-edit, it would appear that George is enjoying being able to add the scale and tech fx that he simply couldn't create at that time, and who can blame him!? - he is now better equipped to realise what might have been his original vision, but was limited by the technology of the time.
At the end of the day, any artist can decide to completely paint over one original masterpiece in favour of a new one if he so wishes, but in the case of a movie like this, it's not like he has the only copy! - it's an alternative - if you don't like the idea - don't go and watch it or buy it!
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