facial animation setup?

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Old 09 September 2002   #16
Tiny update but imprtant!

Found a way of creating expressions i.e. mouth shapes ee,ooh, etc. Basically stick animate on make a mouth shape at frame 5, of eeee, using sliders and points. Then place that key at minus 5, and add a tag at that frame called 'eee shape' then when i need it just copy it over 0 to wherever. So i mght have eee at -5, ooh at -10, mmm at -15 etc, etc.

Eek
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Old 09 September 2002   #17
i see that u are very deep into this facial aniamtion matter.
10x for replayng. i found a facial setup, based on clusters, with pivots in good places. i'll look on it, and if i'll get the permision, and u are interested, i can send u a copy.
thancks again.
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Old 09 September 2002   #18
Yes ,yes please do...

Please send me a copy, it sounds cools. As for my rig it's getting there, just goto transfer it over to Maya, XSI now!, and do the anim test!

Cool!

Eek
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Old 10 October 2002   #19
quick catch up..

Im building this facial rig for a short film im working on, and am also building the skeletal rig as well. (as everyones posting theirs)It'll be called the 'Kassius' rig, and will arrive on monday for reviews, critique, etc. It'll have every control possible hopefully!, well enough to pull off any pose!

Sorry of the delay on the animation facial test, i have too much work, but next week it should be there.

Eek
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Old 10 October 2002   #20
ok I know this thread is prolly long dead, but I am reviving it cause this looks realyl cool...ever finish the maya version?
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Old 10 October 2002   #21
Hey there!...

Hi kingmob, it's getting there, just very busy at work! DAM!!!:annoyed: . Will try start this week.

Eek
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Old 10 October 2002   #22
no problem man...looks really neat tho.

I am very new to animation, and setting up my guys face with bones and set driven stuff...should work for my first attempt, but your setup looks very complex.

hope work is going well.
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Old 10 October 2002   #23
Dude... I think in theory this is a very good method.

I implemented my own version of this method you suggested into my Hi-res model. However, I organised my splines into a near anatomically correct way in that it mimicks the pulling of muscles and not so much pushing. Granted it is the best method I've seen. The sliders and orientation constrants with wieghted influence work well in your example. But I just want to worn people out there - It is very slow on hi-res characters.

You applied Linked X-Form and Mesh Selects to a very simple model. Then applied a meshsmooth. I had a model with many vertices and needed to apply a Soft selection in the Mesh Select Modifier.

I have a beafy machine with a 3dlabs Oxygen GVX1 GFX card... it still had trouble.
 
Old 10 October 2002   #24
Wait. Wait. Before this sounds like I'm bagging the technique I should say first - I'm currently using.

I should suggest a work around.

1. The Multires Modifier!

Use multires to the absolute minimum you can but to the point where your Helper Objects are near some vertices.

2. Collapse the stack to Editable Poly, Patch or Mesh.

It won't matter how bad the polygon reduction is because you can then go back to your original model. Copy and Paste all the modifiers in the Proxy object's Stack to the Hi-res Model as the Helper objects are the only ones being animated.

(Because of this... the Linked-X-forms and their Helper objects can be applied a different looking but similar mesh - You only need to re set the Mesh Selects to the new mesh.)

NOTE: Don't use Optimize because it deletes and moves vertices around - resulting in the helper objects driving the wrong vertices.
----
Multi-res will only delete vertices and generally keeps things more symmetrical.

-------------------------------------------------------

If you're using Character Studio or Bones, I'd go with animating the facial features the Pixar way. That is.... Pantomime the body gestures and THEN go back to "Put the Icing on the cake" with the Lip Sync and expressions.

If your using Physique - Link the Helper objects and Splines to the actual Mesh itself... not the Biped Head as the manuals suggest. This is because Physique naturally assumes a new linked object is a new part of the Hierarchy and creates is own envelope weighting. (You can if you need to.... but you just have to Turn Links Off in the Links Sub-Object level.) Set the Biped Head to Rigid - not Deformable.
 
Old 10 October 2002   #25
ok...

Thanks for the reply....

Kingmob..

its not that complex..just lots of it! i set it up because i needed a system that worked really well and gave me freedom todo anything-well 260 variations! i.e expressions, nuances!!

Gonzo..

Firstly this system is inbeta state, ive spent about three years working it out. It relies on pushing, pulling vertices and so its memory intensive, this is why i work with a poly-version the subdivided at render time. My ideas came from using Softimage at the Framestore on Dinotopia mini-series. That character had around 300 controls, in its face alone!. I work by animating the characters peformance first then add the lip-sync, expression, nuance.

The facial stuff is the last thing in animation, it just helps the perfomance.It is'nt the perfomance.I'll spend 10 days on acting and 3 on lip sync!

Gonzo be very careful implementing this rig in a hires model!!
i havent done that yet! I did this rig to see if there was another way to the whole system, and got sick of seeing bad mocap, and un-synced lip-sync.I put it on this forum to show my progression-and it's still in progress.

Ok..Done

Now back to the rig.

Vertices have positions in space, like say 101.5,30,67.34.My rig links these vertices by linked x-form, (clusters in Maya and XSI-Softimage.)to nulls points. Then addes constraints. i addes NURMS at the end. So basically this vertex controls a group of vertices through the NURMS acting like soft selection. Which are controlled by points,nulls.

My model stems from a sudivided editable poly object, not and edit mesh. If you model with edit mesh the faces are triangla, so you might get tearing,and snapping.Patch's a whole other ball game because your linking and constraining bezier handles, and points.My stack is simple model->linkes->subdivided. If you add additition modifiers like multires you might get adverse affects, eg.

Youve wired up a cheek that controls the corner of the eye through link, constraints. With a moderately complex model.Sudividings fine because it doesnt affect, just adds more faces.

But mult-res generates an average of the model,which can reduced down. But this doesnt take into acount that important vertex you wired at the cheek to the eye. So the link is searching for a point that either doenst exist or has moved.This would effect every point up the stack. Also even if you wak the modifier at the top, i dont know if linked x-form looks up the stack.Sounds very dodgy!

I will endevour to stick this rig in a hires model, actually i have one.! But at present in BETA STAGE-NOT FOR PRODUCTION USE.

Ok, back to too much work.WANNA DO MY OWN STUFF!!

Eek

Will update some more soon!(definately this week!!)
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Old 10 October 2002   #26
When you're talking about Beta, are you going to make a script out of it? Cause Beta generally refers to programs. What I DLoaded was a Max file. Was there more to it? Somethin I missed.

Quote:
But this doesnt take into acount that important vertex you wired at the cheek to the eye. So the link is searching for a point that either doenst exist or has moved.This would effect every point up the stack. Also even if you wak the modifier at the top, i dont know if linked x-form looks up the stack.Sounds very dodgy!


First of all - I said apply Multires to the Editable Mesh. Then collapse it. Do this before all the crap goes in.

Multires doesn't move vertices like Optimise. It only deletes. Sometimes it looks like it moves but it doesn't really. Besides, you can simply go to it's Vertex Sub-Object level. Select the points assigned to MeshSelect and choose "Maintain Base Vertices". Generate. These selected verts are the priority ones and only stuff up at around 1% or less.

The problem I have at the moment is that I've already built my model. Next time I construct a new one... I won't need to do this.
Most likely I'm just going to go with XSI 100% from then on so I'd like to the XSI version spit-firing!
 
Old 10 October 2002   #27
yeah, this is looking really interesting. Its a nice way to get what seems like really cartoony deformations in the face so keep the posts and updates coming. If you have any mb files we could dl that would be cool too.
 
Old 10 October 2002   #28


Awesome stuff man.... really anxious to see how it all turns out....

Did you ever get a chance to work on the Maya setup of your facial rig?



Keep up the good work!
seanman
 
Old 10 October 2002   #29
I will post my own rig using this technique in a couple of days. Its a little bit more complex to suit the character. I'll send a very low poly version with it too.

It definately works.

I hereby fully endorse this event and/or product.
It has changed my life.

4 1/2 stars.
 
Old 10 October 2002   #30
little update..

Thankyou! very much gonzo. Thats the great thing about this rig, you can fit the setup to any mesh however complex.

Ive just added a V/F expression/mouth shape control! will post pick on monday. So in all the rigs got about 900 variable expressions!!!

Im so pleased and amazed, that so may people are intrested and want to learn about the rig/technique, i will make a maya ans XSI version soon.And try to post a tutorial.


Once again thankyou all, and i'll keep the posts coming. Also im gunna build a proper face soon, with eyebrows, hair, wrinkles etc, using the rig!

Eek
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