CGTalk > Software > Maxon Cinema 4D
Login register
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-14-2011, 05:22 AM   #1
rustEdge
that guy
 
rustEdge's Avatar
portfolio
Gene Carlo Magtoto
Digital Designer, Cinema4D TD & Animator
freelance
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 345
Send a message via Yahoo to rustEdge
Reusable Hand Rig (and more rigging tools under development)

Heya guys,

I'm working on my character modeling skills, though it's a little tricky figuring out if the mesh flows are correct if I can't test them out myself. So parallel to this, I'm working on my own set of rigging tools to ease up on my modeling studies. Plus it'll boost my rigging/animation workflow.

This is one part of my rigging setup, the hand rig. I only used stock C4D Modules for my setup (XPresso, Constraints, Mocca.) I've set it with both IK and FK controls, so I could use whichever works better for the situation. I've set it up so the IK controls are stable through the whole range of motion for the fingers; no unpredictable twisting. The maximum angles and the rates each joint rotates are fully customizable with range mappers. Extra fingers are just copy-pasted, including the thumb. As long as the finger has three bones in it (or less), the rig can be used.

version 1:
http://vimeo.com/25065726
version 2:
http://vimeo.com/26346377

Extra update, new Spline IK Iag:

I've been working on an alternative Spline IK tag. This one uses either a rail spline to control the alignment of the bones, or inputting the twisting values manually. Think of it as the Spline Deformer, only instead of deforming the objects, it reorients them along the spline. And as long as the angle between two joints does not go past 180 degrees, joint twisting is stable. It's not picky with hierarchy setups either.

__________________
Do what you want to do, not what you think you want to do.
| ToothedWheel V2 plugin for C4D |UberTracer plugin for C4D |

Last edited by rustEdge : 07-23-2011 at 02:28 AM. Reason: added updates
 
Old 06-15-2011, 09:23 PM   #2
alij
Veteran
ali jaber
Mass Media
beirut, Lebanon
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 37
nice work

i'm not a rigging guy but it looks useful, are you going to share it?
(thanks for your ubertracer plugin by the way)

ali
 
Old 06-15-2011, 10:37 PM   #3
rustEdge
that guy
 
rustEdge's Avatar
portfolio
Gene Carlo Magtoto
Digital Designer, Cinema4D TD & Animator
freelance
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 345
Send a message via Yahoo to rustEdge
Unfortunately, This rig is proprietary. I'm spending a LOT of time working on this and I'm not ready to give it out. The closest I can provide is advice on how to develop stable rigs via stock C4D modules..
__________________
Do what you want to do, not what you think you want to do.
| ToothedWheel V2 plugin for C4D |UberTracer plugin for C4D |
 
Old 06-15-2011, 10:47 PM   #4
xfon5168
Jack of All Trades
Bret Bays
Character TD
USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,147
Send a message via AIM to xfon5168
Looks good.

The only things offputting to me(and this is strictly out of habit so feel free to just blow it off) is the movement to control rotations. If you're not going to have the object's rotation driving the rotation, I think I'd prefer it as a slider to moving, but others may disagree. I'd personally rather just rotate but different strokes for different folks.

I like the curves for the curling. Are those splines driving the spline in a Range Mapper?

Looks very good, keep it up.
__________________
www.bretbays.com
"We do not - not wag our genitals at one another to make a point!"
 
Old 06-15-2011, 11:49 PM   #5
rustEdge
that guy
 
rustEdge's Avatar
portfolio
Gene Carlo Magtoto
Digital Designer, Cinema4D TD & Animator
freelance
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 345
Send a message via Yahoo to rustEdge
Aye. I set up the controllers that way because I want to use just the move tool to control all movements from the viewport, even if they're for rotations. And you're right. It is clunky. I'm trying an alternative setup that uses Aim and Clamp Constraints to control rotation (so essentially the controllers are aim constraint goals and each joint will rotate to face their corresponding goal). It works much better than my current setup, though it's still a bit unstable. C4D is TERRIBLE with pretty much anything that requires rotation (e.g. Spline IK, Aim Constraint, Target Tag, Align to Spline, etc.) Getting them to rotate the way you want is just painful. Often it's more stable to just do a little trig in COFFEE/XPresso than use those items.

Regarding sliders versus visual controllers, I like certain aspects of each. Sliders are WAY more precise, faster to set up, and easier to organize, but it's pretty cumbersome accessing them. You'll have to find the item that contains all the controllers first, then adjust them in the Attribute Manager. They can be dropped into the Viewport HUD, but I find them annoying to deal with, especially when I need to get them out of the way. So if I only have a handful of user data, or if they're just boolean data I'm more likely to use the HUD method. If there's lots of different data (like for the fingers or anything else articulated), I prefer controllers directly inside the scene. They can be turned on and off via layers easily. Biggest disadvantage is you need to set up how the controllers behave as well, so you're essentially creating a rig setup for your rig controllers.

And regarding the curling... Aye, the splines are user data (spline type) connected to range mappers. Though I use two range mappers per joint. One is for curling and the other for uncurling, and only one of them is active at a time. So if the controller moves to the positive axis, it'll use the curling range mapper. If it's moved to the negative axis, it'll use the one for uncurling. If it's zeroed out, the local rotation is set to zero. If it's If I only used one range mapper, I'll have to go full-on OCD just to get the proper zero position.
__________________
Do what you want to do, not what you think you want to do.
| ToothedWheel V2 plugin for C4D |UberTracer plugin for C4D |
 
Old 06-16-2011, 01:13 PM   #6
E2GO
PRO
portfolio
Egor Gostyshev
CG Artist
Vladivostok, Russia
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 169
Send a message via ICQ to E2GO
Wow. Great work on that rig!
Cinema4d is definitely needs some simplerigger\"biped-like" analog beside the mocca\character animation...
And btw if there'll be any chance of buying this hand rig - i will (and not only me i think...) - just let me knows that it's possible....
Again great work you've made rustEdge!!
 
Old 06-16-2011, 02:56 PM   #7
vid2k2
Expert
 
vid2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,691
Thumbs up

Nice result.
I can see the gradual evolution to this over time via your vimeo clips.
__________________
David

iMac 3.06 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo / 16 GB / OS 10.9.5 / C4D StudioR12 / CS6

R.I.P. 11.02.11 ... my dear friend .
 
Old 06-16-2011, 04:03 PM   #8
AkaKico
Life on the edge mode
 
AkaKico's Avatar
portfolio
Chris Schmidt
C4d Tool/tutorial maker
GSG
Chicago, USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,104
Send a message via AIM to AkaKico
Very nice looking! I've actually been putting a lot of time into rigging lately myself and this is a very similar idea to what I've been putting together. I struggled with trying to decide to go with visual controls or set up user data but in the end I thought that an entire hand worth of little controllers got a bit messy for my taste.

http://vimeo.com/21382904 hand demo
http://vimeo.com/20935982 test animation

Would be fun to compare some notes. Rare to find fancy rigs.

Chris
__________________
Tutorials
 
Old 06-16-2011, 09:33 PM   #9
rustEdge
that guy
 
rustEdge's Avatar
portfolio
Gene Carlo Magtoto
Digital Designer, Cinema4D TD & Animator
freelance
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 345
Send a message via Yahoo to rustEdge
@Egor
I might consider it in the future, although I'm focused on completing the whole system first. I'm confident in my mechanical/general animation skills, although facial rigging/animation isn't part of my skillset just yet. Once I can develop/animate facial rigs just as easy, then I can probably release something.

@David
Thanks.
I think I should be upping more videos (with audio too), though I don't have much free resources for rendering animation tests at the moment. *sigh* I should really get back to coding my website too.

@Chris
Hehehe, that's true. I'm starting to get confused with the XPresso code I used for the controllers meself, even with notes.

This is a rough view of how complicated the XPresso was for just one finger (Gonna increase by 25% because I forgot to add controls for moving the palm joints):

The left side is for managing the set-up controls of the finger (mostly turning things on and off and constraining controller movements to one/two axes), the right side is for the finger curling (mostly range mappers and lots of adding/subtracting). I'd probably move everything to a COFFEE Node next time so it's less cluttered.
The items in the object manager isn't simple either. I think I've got at least three times the objects that a basic rig would contain...

The IK portion of my rig needed a LOT of helpers to keep it from flipping and to maintain its axis of rotation. Hrm... I never though of adding an extra joint chain for the thumb's webbing.

It's a little late (over a year and a half late...) but I'd like to thank you for your set of Thinking Particle lessons. It helped me understand pretty much everything about working with XPresso in less than a week (I only started using C4D less than two years ago as a school requirement, and only had 6 months of 3d experience prior with Blender.). It pretty much kick-started my interest in everything non-modeling-related in 3D.

I'd be honored to compare notes with you, good sir.
__________________
Do what you want to do, not what you think you want to do.
| ToothedWheel V2 plugin for C4D |UberTracer plugin for C4D |
 
Old 06-16-2011, 11:32 PM   #10
xfon5168
Jack of All Trades
Bret Bays
Character TD
USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,147
Send a message via AIM to xfon5168
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaKico
Very nice looking! I've actually been putting a lot of time into rigging lately myself and this is a very similar idea to what I've been putting together. I struggled with trying to decide to go with visual controls or set up user data but in the end I thought that an entire hand worth of little controllers got a bit messy for my taste.

http://vimeo.com/21382904 hand demo
http://vimeo.com/20935982 test animation

Would be fun to compare some notes. Rare to find fancy rigs.

Chris


Chris would you mind sharing that hand mesh? It looks nice and light and fun, and maybe if I had a hand I would have a go posting something about my hand rig which would be fun to kind of compare.
__________________
www.bretbays.com
"We do not - not wag our genitals at one another to make a point!"
 
Old 06-17-2011, 11:33 AM   #11
rustEdge
that guy
 
rustEdge's Avatar
portfolio
Gene Carlo Magtoto
Digital Designer, Cinema4D TD & Animator
freelance
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 345
Send a message via Yahoo to rustEdge
update: restarting from scratch

Posting a small update.

I'm completely redoing my setup from scratch to optimize it and make it even more user-friendly.

Now the controllers for individual joints aren't linear translations anymore. They're actually stuck to the joints they control as if the Constrain Goal option on an IK Tag is used. BUT I DID NOT use the IK tag, as it doesn't provide the proper angles that I need. I made custom XPresso to replace the default Aim Constraint/Target Tag. They're pretty stable and lets me rotate the fingers a full 360 without flipping.

Also, as per Brian's recommendation over at C4DCafe, I've added Joints for the palm bones as well. They can twist around the H and P axes, and the B can be rotated without breaking the rig. The hand mesh in the sample is the same as the one I used before, no alterations. I actually didn't expect the new joints to create those tendons at the back of the hand; The thing was just auto-weighted... Thanks Brian!


Next step would be to re-apply a "setup mode", and then the IK mode.
__________________
Do what you want to do, not what you think you want to do.
| ToothedWheel V2 plugin for C4D |UberTracer plugin for C4D |
 
Old 06-17-2011, 12:25 PM   #12
hsrdelic
Game, set and mesh
 
hsrdelic's Avatar
portfolio
Hrvoje
Split, Croatia
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 336
Great rig Gene, I am looking forward to see final result.
Here is a female hand mesh for everyone who would like to have a play with it.

Cheers
Attached Files
File Type: zip Female_hand.zip (26.5 KB, 170 views)
__________________

 
Old 06-17-2011, 12:36 PM   #13
NiklasR
Expert
 
NiklasR's Avatar
portfolio
Niklas Rosenstein
Germany
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 438
Very very nice Rig.
Can you please tell me why your C4D GUI is that different ? O.o

Cheers,
 
Old 06-17-2011, 12:53 PM   #14
rustEdge
that guy
 
rustEdge's Avatar
portfolio
Gene Carlo Magtoto
Digital Designer, Cinema4D TD & Animator
freelance
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 345
Send a message via Yahoo to rustEdge
Well, the GUI is a custom theme I downloaded from this thread. The colors though are manually adjusted to match my lighting in the room, the layout tweaked to match my workflow, and I had to recolor some of the icons to show properly on a dark background.

I have the files saved in my program directory, though I think the files can be placed in the preferences folder...
__________________
Do what you want to do, not what you think you want to do.
| ToothedWheel V2 plugin for C4D |UberTracer plugin for C4D |
 
Old 06-17-2011, 03:00 PM   #15
DesignAmyte
Frequenter
noob
Amber, Austria
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 147
wow,

amazing "hand-rig" . Canīt wait to see more
of your progress ... !


cheers
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright Đ2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.