Anyone thinking of sailing the XSI ship?

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  08 August 2004
I don't think you can accurately compare with generalized "this app + these plugins = that app" statements.

I'm convinced after using the R9 demo that even with MOCCA I still wouldn't have as powerful a character setup and animation tool as I do in XSI. I also think the UV tools in XSI are the best I've seen in any other app out of the box. Though combine BP2 with C4D and that changes things. I think I like the modeling tools and workflow in R9 better than what XSI offers, but not nearly enough to think they will give me a major speed increase, as XSI's tools are pretty solid. Tweak mode is severly limited by only working on verts in XSI.

I definitely prefer the UI in C4D but again, XSI works and works well, despite not being very pretty.

I think it really depends on what you want to do with the app. For character setup and animation I'd have to choose XSI. For everything else though... I'd say R9 looks like it competes rather well. I'll be watching to see how C4D evolves from this point forward because R9 has been the first worthwhile update for me to consider a purchase.
 
  08 August 2004
Originally Posted by fxgogo: I have been seriously tempted in the last few days to forgo my upgrade to 9 and get XSI instead. It does mean laerning a new app, but it has some really powerful features. Anyone else been thinking along the same lines?

Adding, yes. Switching... no.

I like Cinema's interface better (it has considerably more visual feedback), and Cinema's less buggy.

But the character animation tools in XSI are... impressive. v9 closes the gap IMO, but the person in charge is switching, so I'm complementing my toolset with it, since I'm building the character rig for him
 
  08 August 2004
Originally Posted by RorrKonn: Am I thinking right ?
the Stock C4D = XSI Foundation.
C4D+1/2 the Mods=XSI essentials.
C4D + All the Mods = XSI Advanced.

No... XSI Advance = C4D Studio - BodyPaint + Digital Fusion + Shave and a Haircut.

But I'm with Gwot.
 
  08 August 2004
I bought it last week, and I don't even have a PC to run it on yet. All the training materials included are just too good to pass up, AND it comes with a printed manual. Bad move on Maxon's part not including a printed manual...
 
  08 August 2004
Naw, not me. I'm going for R9 in a few weeks. Maybe when I've learned everything there is to learn in C4D as far as modeling and squeezed everything I can out of the renderer as far as creating realism then I might have time to play with something else. Besides, you all must not be married. Getting money for this hobby is like trying to suck an elephant thru a straw when it comes to my wife. ( AKA Hilda The Pain Mistress )
 
  08 August 2004
oh I agree ya can't compare App's.
mainly cause some App's ya just click better with.
even if they have the same tools.

reckon I should have worded that better some how.
"Am I thinking right ?
the Stock C4D = XSI Foundation.
C4D+1/2 the Mods=XSI essentials.
C4D + All the Mods = XSI Advanced."
but I meant more or less, sort like, not a absolute.

trying to ask this in a way it don't aggravate any one or start a war.

When you all say XSI has killer Character animation.
Reckon you all mean XSI Advanced and not XSI Foundation ?

this is not a absolute answer, it's a sorta kind alike, more or less answer.
I am just trying to get the general knowledge of it all.
XSI Advanced and Kaydra our more or less, sorta kinda = ?
So if ya have Kaydra ya wouldn't need XSI Advanced.
or if ya had XSI Advanced ya wouldn't need Kaydra. right ?

Just trying to find out if I am I missing something ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com
 
  08 August 2004
Originally Posted by RorrKonn: oh I agree ya can't compare App's.
mainly cause some App's ya just click better with.
even if they have the same tools.

I'm very impressed with XSI, but, overall I still prefer Cinema.

Quote: reckon I should have worded that better some how.
"Am I thinking right ?
the Stock C4D = XSI Foundation.
C4D+1/2 the Mods=XSI essentials.
C4D + All the Mods = XSI Advanced."
but I meant more or less, sort like, not a absolute.

I didn't mean for that to sound harsh or anything.

It is interesting to note that when you take the compositor into account, Cinema and XSI are now in the same price range (!).

Quote: When you all say XSI has killer Character animation.
Reckon you all mean XSI Advanced and not XSI Foundation ?

Actually, Foundation as it turns out has the same character animation tools that rest of the line has. That's the big thing that makes it such a good deal. There are a bunch of other highly automated rig components in Essentials that you don't get with Foundation, but the experienced users at XSIBase said that you can still do all of that with Foundation. The only catch is that you don't get SCOPS and you have to build the sophisticated stuff yourself.

SCOP by the way = Scripted OPerator. I'm not entirely clear on what they are yet, so I can't really explain it. You'll have to ask someone who knows XSI better than I do

Quote:
this is not a absolute answer, it's a sorta kind alike, more or less answer.
I am just trying to get the general knowledge of it all.
XSI Advanced and Kaydra our more or less, sorta kinda = ?
So if ya have Kaydra ya wouldn't need XSI Advanced.
or if ya had XSI Advanced ya wouldn't need Kaydra. right ?

If you have XSI, Motion Builder's redundant, IMO. On the other hand, Motion Builder seems a bit limited for non-biped/quadrupeds. In fact, the only reason we aren't using Motion Builder for our project is that it can't auto-rig anything that isn't either a biped or a quadruped. I have Messiah, but our art director doesn't, and now that it would actually cost MORE for him to get Messiah:Studio than for him to get XSI Foundation, it became pretty much a given.

Quote: Just trying to find out if I am I missing something ?

No, not really. I don't think that very many people are actually jumping ship, so much as seeking to take advantage of a killer deal. I know I fit into that category.
 
  08 August 2004
scops are the same as a COFFEE expresion. xsi has no node based expressions (so nothing like xpresso, or maya's hypergraph), so if you're going to use it for any length of time then likely you will have to get used to scripting for everything from simple expeesions through to getting any sort of scene interaction with textures (i.e. if you want proximal, be prepared to code it, unlike for instance maya's hypershade where you have full scene interaction too).
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  08 August 2004
Thanks for that.

Ironically, that probably means that it will be easier for me to get used to, since I'm so used to writing code anyway.

But then again, since I'm getting Foundation, I won't have access to SCOPs anyway.
 
  08 August 2004
Not switching. I am very interested in Xsi. I started as a Max User+FormZ user, converted to C4d with v7 ( still use FMZ once in a while). We have Maya in the office - we used it primarily for a complex organic,form ( we do architecture.). However, when it comes to experimenting, especially for competitions, I find C4d better than anything else I have tried so far.
The deal from Xsi seems quite impressive... But C4d r9 adds pretty much everything I wanted, so I am very satisfied. The modelling is as good as, or mostly better, than anything else I have seen for poly modelling ( well, the soft selections should be improved IMO, and a Object axis tools like the Model Axis tools would be very usefull).
So I am upgrading our 2 studio bundle seats... and adding a third one!
jp
 
  08 August 2004
Originally Posted by jorgevaldes: Bad move on Maxon's part not including a printed manual...

Yeah, for 8.5 sure I can understand that, but for a major release no, that is crazy. I would expect to see some reduction in the price then. S&T was the same deal, and it was a heafty manual when I printed it out at work . I think it is a great idea to not print manuals, purely for enviromental reasons, but until we get a cheap, portable medium to read those pdfs, it won't be a great way to read the manual. My manual goes everywhere, to work, outside, the toilet and nothing beats that tactical medium yet.

Tugmaster, like you I am to also married. We have just bought our first house and I have a 17month old child, so R9 is way down the list of priorities.
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Slowly Making Smoke

www.slowlymakingsmoke.com
 
  08 August 2004
Well, ive seen artists make stunning renders in carera studio, but that does not mean i have to buy the package.


XSI is one of the most used packages at the big studio now, and cinema is still lacking in High-End production, and that's a fact, so depending on what YOU wan't todo with it, decide, you know if it's worth buying yourself.

At the end, it's the man behind the screenz that does it, not the package guys....
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  08 August 2004
Originally Posted by Galo: XSI is one of the most used packages at the big studio now, and cinema is still lacking in High-End production, and that's a fact ...


And you know this from where ?
 
  08 August 2004
Thanks for the XSI,Kaydra,Scripted etc etc Education.

Manuals ? if ya want one then I think ya should be able to get one.
Video tutorials ? BP2 Video tutorials were very helpful.

Anybody got the full version of C4D9 yet,Does C4D9 have Video tutorials ?

Several threads about XSI,Silo Not much about Modo.
never got Silo cause it's so much like TS.

Think Modo interest me more then XSI Foundation.
LWers would understand.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com
 
  08 August 2004
XSI Foundation

The specific enticement to the XSI Foundation version is in the upgrade pricing. You can upgrade to the higher versions and not loose a penny. Wink-wink Maxon.
 
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