Announcing Cinema 4D R20

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  2 Weeks Ago
Incremental upgrade costs aren't that much of a problem if you're earning  your living off the software & you get enough each year to making working a bit more fast or pleasant. I find it's often the little things that improve my workflow most with the yearly upgrades.
From an objective point of view, this is a really solid release, lot's of impressive features. From my personal point of view, none of the big features really land in my core areas of interest. But we'll see over the next year how I change my mind, often happens.
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  2 Weeks Ago
Boy that new core must REALLY be something.

Some Year.

In the vast far-flung future.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Being someone who does a vast amount of work with product CAD, I am interested in the new R20 import features. However, being that I very much rely on MOI and Rhino to run interference between the client STEP file and Cinema, I'm not 100% sure what advantages I'd gain from the import features.
So, for those of you who have tested the new features, can you compare and contrast how that may work, when compared with using dedicated CAD apps to set up files ahead of importing into C4D?
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Here's question that I know a lot of Zbrush people would want to know...seeing as plugin's are typically screwed, with exception to python based ones....does GOZ from ZBrush still work ?

@ThreeDDude,

After I expanded my tool set with C4D 11.5 XL which included the Hair & Mograph modules I did add few commercial plugins such as Greebler, Degamma and a PaintShader plugin which looks like something R20 has included. Like you I didn't just stand still with just that, but expanded what I had with other commercial tools. With ZBrush obviously....but also with Photoshop CS6 in 2013 which I bought just before it went full subscription and that cost £620 inc VAT. I still have the Adobe CS2 Production Premium suite which includes Adobe After Effects 7, Illustrator, Photoshop..Audition, Premier I got as a mature multimedia student in 2006...still working to this day...and all that only cost £260. I use Photoshop CS6 on a daily basis, no further costs forever unlike it is now, so it's been worth it in the long term.. Blackmagics Fusion 9 ( Node based ) is my new choice of VFX application which I'm looking to integrate into my project work and Hitfilm 2018 for video editing currently as Resolve 12.5 is slow and Resolve 15 isn't compatible with my graphics card. After Effects 7 is an option but it does force my desktop into XP style mode as a minor hindrance. 

Other products are much more cost effective to own, progress with and learn... able to achieve things that are by themselves pretty amazing....    
     
Here's a screenshot of all the plugins that I would lose by upgrading to Cinema 4D R20  (if that was possible )lol...it's unreal...I mean really...there is a lot...I don't think this is real progress, progress that matters to the user...
and very little to make up for it....


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Last edited by -/\-Scott-M-C4D-/\- : 2 Weeks Ago at 09:04 PM.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
There are definitely some nice new features but this doesn’t look at all like ‘the big one’ that many of us have anticipated and looked forward to. I have a suspicion that there was more planned but some features/updates just weren’t ready to be included quite yet.

I’m discouraged with this but I suppose it’s better we have a stable release than get new features that are buggy.

As one who uses third party rendering solutions...this release  offers a few things - but not a lot to be excited about. I’m sure the devs are working super hard to advance the product but I think of the proverb, “hope deferred makes the heart sick...” I’m a bit bummed.
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Last edited by IceCaveMan : 2 Weeks Ago at 10:53 PM.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
GOZ didn't work before...
Been using obj for years.
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  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by AdsovonMelk: I've read at otoy forums that there is no mention of nodal interface in R20 SDK. That means  it's not possible, for now  at least, to use it by external render engines, so for third party render engine users like me it's not very useful. VDB's are very welcome, but also for anyone using x-particles it's not that ground breaking, but I must say it looks very good. "Fields" stuff looks very impressive, one step closer to houdini like possibilities. All those little things that saves you countless hours in work also looks very good.
I don't understand one thing about this new core, why we have to wait at least one more release to see any visible improvement to scene evaluation?
Number 20 seems to be as round as it can be to premiere ultra fast, accelerated scene evaluation.
And no UV stuff, Vamp working with UV's, clone stamp on UV edges?  (hint: game engines/AR/VR needs UV's)
Come one Maxon!
Overall, best release in years, but my expectations are not in sync with Maxon's development timeline i guess.
An SDK for 3rd Party engines is in the works. This unfortunately couldn't be done for R20.

About the new core. There is already a lot of the new core in (basic stuff, modeling kernel, nodes, node editor, ...). But you have to imagine exchanging the core a bit like changing the fundaments of a huge skyscraper, while all the people are still living and working inside. Just much more complex! You can either tear everything down and the slowly rebuild everything from the ground up (which would mean no UV stuff, Vamp ...., etc. and not a single new feature for several years) or slowly modernising the building, with every working as expected, some new stuff every year, but a slower progress.
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  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by -/\-Scott-M-C4D-/\-: Here's question that I know a lot of Zbrush people would want to know...seeing as plugin's are typically screwed, with exception to python based ones....does GOZ from ZBrush still work ?


     
Here's a screenshot of all the plugins that I would lose by upgrading to Cinema 4D R20  (if that was possible )lol...it's unreal...I mean really...there is a lot...I don't think this is real progress, progress that matters to the user...
and very little to make up for it....


Zbrush user here... no big deal, I just export my subtools one by one, as that is essentially what the plugin really does. I would have done
that a year ago anyway since Maya 2018 broke GoZ.

What do you expect Maxon or the developers to do? keep spending time and money working on legacy / unused tools like COFFEE? or ask Samir the developer of Navie Effects to come back from retirement? Pretty sure all mayor developers had a copy of r20 beta ahead of time in order to prepare for it, like it happens with all major 3d apps. I havent followed Nitroman in a while, but Im guessing he will also update all his nitro stuff.
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  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: There are definitely some nice new features but this doesn’t look at all like ‘the big one’ that many of us have anticipated and looked forward to. I have a suspicion that there was more planned but some features/updates just weren’t ready to be included quite yet.

I’m discouraged with this but I suppose it’s better we have a stable release than get new features that are buggy.

As one who uses third party rendering solutions...this release doesn’t  offer a lot for me to be excited about. I’m sure the devs are working super hard to advance the product but I think of the proverb, “hope deferred makes the heart sick...” I’m a bit bummed.
I agree this is thin for the R20 expectations. No Eevee like, still subpar integration with other render engines, no character stuff improved, no universal simulation tools, no uvw improvements.
Of course i don't know what is behind the scenes so to speak, how many lines of code this implied...
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by -/\-Scott-M-C4D-/\-: I appreciate that they have finally put a Node Material System in C4D, but it's literally been an eternity for that to happen and just imagine how much continual upgrading that this would have involved cost wise to stay current and to have this one thing....

That's quite the straw man you've constructed!  Let's not pretend that 9 years of upgrades only gets users "this one thing."

If you can't see the value of anything beyond 11.5, and "Other products are much more cost effective to own, progress with and learn... able to achieve things that are by themselves pretty amazing...", then use those other products.  I've done it before.  It's painful, but doable.

There has never been a better time to get free or cheap professional grade software. Get Blender or Houdini Apprentice for free. Buy affinity photo and affinity designer.  $100 investment, total. Less if you get the affinity programs on sale.

But do yourself a favor and move past After Effects 7.  AE CC 2018 is significantly faster at basically everything. I can't imagine using older versions. I simply don't have the time for slow software anymore.

I can't wait for R20. But I'm not tied to so many old plugins that are no longer being developed.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Mapache: An SDK for 3rd Party engines is in the works. This unfortunately couldn't be done for R20.


Are you saying one won't be available until R20.5 or R21?
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Mapache: An SDK for 3rd Party engines is in the works. This unfortunately couldn't be done for R20.

About the new core. There is already a lot of the new core in (basic stuff, modeling kernel, nodes, node editor, ...). But you have to imagine exchanging the core a bit like changing the fundaments of a huge skyscraper, while all the people are still living and working inside. Just much more complex! You can either tear everything down and the slowly rebuild everything from the ground up (which would mean no UV stuff, Vamp ...., etc. and not a single new feature for several years) or slowly modernising the building, with every working as expected, some new stuff every year, but a slower progress.
It's nice to hear that SDK is in the works. Looking at node list it seems that You created quite a mature node editor for it's first iteration. It has quite a few nice nodes which are absent in octane's node editor. Is it OSL under the hood, or will it support it?

About the core. It is very understandable that it is a monumental task to rebuild fundamental stuff maintaining usable application. Most likely I wouldn't be able to wrap my head around amount of tasks needed to be done before object handling portion.
R20 just made sens in my head to be this one considering R16 was the first with the new core if I remember correctly.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
While the expectations of the Big One was talked about I tried to remain neutral as to the reality of r20.  Im glad I did in a way otherwise my current disappointment would be significantly worse given how not one thing on my short list has made it into R20.  I can see the apeal to the new user and the hardcore Morgraph user, but everything else is missing from this release that should have been in it.  Given that the price has risen by £100 for studio users this has pushed my hand to not renew my MSA simply because Im getting nothing from it what so ever.

My only last hope now is that the enhancements not mentioned yet include some additions that did not make it on the big list and that while they may seem trival to some,  the character rigger, animator, Modeller, texture artist that use these features would appreciate at least a few things for their money.

I really like C4D, but do not like where its heading if this is going to be a example of Maxons direction.

Dan
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, Zbrush 2018, Unfold3D 9,Marvelous Designer 7, Keyshot 6 pro.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Bullit: I agree this is thin for the R20 expectations. No Eevee like, still subpar integration with other render engines, no character stuff improved, no universal simulation tools, no uvw improvements.
Of course i don't know what is behind the scenes so to speak, how many lines of code this implied...

C4D R19 viewport isn't similar to Blender Eevee? Maybe not as mature though.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by imashination: True. But I'd say 10 steps forward, a small shuffle back. Given the choice between releasing an entire new decent node system but lacks a couple of bits Vs not, there's no reason to hold it back, something you'd just told us you don't want to happen.

This is actually kind of dissapointing. When you have missing features, like this, it means the tool itself is less useful. There isnt a shot I/we work on that doesnt use SSS in some way.
If the updates came regularly throughout the year, then it might be a bit easier to overlook. But knowing (based on recent years) that new featutures only come out  once a year, it means we probably wont be able to take advantage of this feature--at least for most situations.. 

Anyway there are some welcomed new features that I am sure will speed up our workflow --especially the mograph updates and the CAD support,  
At the same time, I guess I was also kinda expecting  the big "R20! mother of all Rs!" announcement. But I'll take it! Thanks Maxon.
 
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