What are you missing when it comes to modelling inside C4D?

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  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by skeebertus: They damned everyone to continue working with old-fashioned polygon box-modeling techniques instead. Create a cube. Extrude face. Make a cut. Subdivide. And so on and so forth...
? Old fashion polygon box modeling works, and it can be really fast to work with. While I prefer to model everything in zbrush, from hardsurface to organic modeling, I wouldnt call it -between lines- an outdated workflow. Create a cube. extrude face, make a cut as you call it is a series of operations that can be automatized via a script or mel or through a Houdini asset, and you can model pretty much everything from cups to ships with it. Is not like it can be done. You can do anything from organic to hard surface and if we are comparing Sketchup quality -except a very few talented artists- is well behind anything any major DCC can do from what I can tell.

I just dont understand your way of thinking. Yes, some softwares has better tools... but remember, back in the day DCCs like Maya introduced several modeling options, because back in the day we had nurbs, subdivision and one other think I dont really remember the name, no one could foresee the future, so we had lots of options and eventually one workflow stuck as the best among the others -I still have friends that swear nurbs modeling is the best for everything- It takes time to see what works and what not, it takes practice and it takes study, and a major DCC app has to cater to a lot of needs, from sims, FX, animation, modeling, rendering, etc... sketchup is an specialized app... they have "only" one job, so is no surprise they excel at what they do.

Look again and all the beloved characters done with box modeling, did they really "damned everyone" ?

On the other hand.. sketchup is free, so why not add it into the pipeline? I added zbrush to mine, and im a very happy animator.
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  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by luisRiera: ? Old fashion polygon box modeling works, and it can be really fast to work with. While I prefer to model everything in zbrush, from hardsurface to organic modeling, I wouldnt call it -between lines- an outdated workflow. Create a cube. extrude face, make a cut as you call it is a series of operations that can be automatized via a script or mel or through a Houdini asset, and you can model pretty much everything from cups to ships with it. Is not like it can be done. You can do anything from organic to hard surface and if we are comparing Sketchup quality -except a very few talented artists- is well behind anything any major DCC can do from what I can tell.

I just dont understand your way of thinking. Yes, some softwares has better tools... but remember, back in the day DCCs like Maya introduced several modeling options, because back in the day we had nurbs, subdivision and one other think I dont really remember the name, no one could foresee the future, so we had lots of options and eventually one workflow stuck as the best among the others -I still have friends that swear nurbs modeling is the best for everything- It takes time to see what works and what not, it takes practice and it takes study, and a major DCC app has to cater to a lot of needs, from sims, FX, animation, modeling, rendering, etc... sketchup is an specialized app... they have "only" one job, so is no surprise they excel at what they do.

Look again and all the beloved characters done with box modeling, did they really "damned everyone" ?

On the other hand.. sketchup is free, so why not add it into the pipeline? I added zbrush to mine, and im a very happy animator.

Agreed.

From where I sit there are 3 general approaches to getting a model created:
-Traditional modeling (including nurbs, generators, parametric objects)
-Sculpting
-3d scanning

All 3 have benefits and limitations.

If you sculpt or scan you still will likely want to re-topo it.

Maxon has made improvements in all 3 of these work flows in the past five years, adding sculpting, poly pen tool and tech to handle scanned objets. C4D's sculpting tools can't rival 3dCoat or ZBrush at this time, but Modo, Max and Maya users don't have great sculpting tools either.

I don't think anyone using c4d, modo, max, maya is 'damned'.
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Last edited by IceCaveMan : 05 May 2018 at 07:31 PM.
 
  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by luisRiera: ? Old fashion polygon box modeling works, and it can be really fast to work with. While I prefer to model everything in zbrush, from hardsurface to organic modeling, I wouldnt call it -between lines- an outdated workflow. Create a cube. extrude face, make a cut as you call it is a series of operations that can be automatized via a script or mel or through a Houdini asset, and you can model pretty much everything from cups to ships with it. Is not like it can be done. You can do anything from organic to hard surface and if we are comparing Sketchup quality -except a very few talented artists- is well behind anything any major DCC can do from what I can tell.

I just dont understand your way of thinking. Yes, some softwares has better tools... but remember, back in the day DCCs like Maya introduced several modeling options, because back in the day we had nurbs, subdivision and one other think I dont really remember the name, no one could foresee the future, so we had lots of options and eventually one workflow stuck as the best among the others -I still have friends that swear nurbs modeling is the best for everything- It takes time to see what works and what not, it takes practice and it takes study, and a major DCC app has to cater to a lot of needs, from sims, FX, animation, modeling, rendering, etc... sketchup is an specialized app... they have "only" one job, so is no surprise they excel at what they do.

Look again and all the beloved characters done with box modeling, did they really "damned everyone" ?

On the other hand.. sketchup is free, so why not add it into the pipeline? I added zbrush to mine, and im a very happy animator.


There is no comparison with Sketchup box modeling including its snap automatism, measurements, Sketchup is way superior. I am about twice faster modeling a building in Sketchup than in Max and i use Max more because it is what most companies have.
 
  05 May 2018
Agreed. Yes there is no doubt C4D is a more powerful app. Which is what makes it so frustrating. It can do sculpting but it cant replicate the simple push pull feature of sketchup or formZ. What is the fastest way to accurately create a wall of specified length and thickness in a certain direction and punch a specific window size hole through it in C4D? How can you then rotate that wall accurately using snaps to reference objects? Then whats the most efficient way to add different materials to different faces - texture tags?!

Sketchup does indeed have its own frustrating limitations and actually formZ is a much more powerful version of sketchup but that has its own issues as well. However C4D doesnt do the middle ground well. You have primitive manually intensive box modelling without a decent coordinates and snapping system or advanced things like sculpting. Surely there can be a way to incorporate the push pull style of modelling that everyone will appreciate or at least see it as a useful addition to the tool set.
 
  05 May 2018
Isn't there a plugin that does that Push-Pull thing?
I could have sworn someone wrote something like that years ago. Where you use mouse buttons and keyboard keys to draw a 2D spline shape and drag to create 3D objects like walls.
And then snap them together.

-ScottA
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  05 May 2018
Lwcad maybe ?

In sketchup you just draw in any surface and you can pull push. Also one of best things that Sketchup have that came from CAD is the viewport inferences you can get. So if you push an object when it passes the height of another you have the option of stopping the push at that height.

It is btw amazing that almost 20 years after virtual and physical(relationships) inferences existing in mechanical CAD software still thee isn't any in so called DDC. Most people use instances as a sort of cheap relationship but it is the whole object not only the height, or the side size.

here is an example of sketchup pull push.

Last edited by Bullit : 05 May 2018 at 08:58 PM.
 
  05 May 2018
Also in Sketchup you modelled a window /door make it as a compoment , then you have a box, if you drop the window in any side of the box automatically opens an aperture for the window.

An example of creating a window and using it as component. Opening automatically where you move it.

 
  05 May 2018
Nothing to see here
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Last edited by luisRiera : 05 May 2018 at 09:52 PM.
 
  05 May 2018
I had some issues posting the videos, for some reason it linked text to the video link. Are they now correct Luis?
 
  05 May 2018
This is for you Bullit.
This is my first attempt at writing a tool plug like this. I don't normally work with these kinds of tools. But I wanted to see if I could replicate your Sketchup videos.
I'm pretty sure I could add snapping options if I really wanted to. But I don't want to. ;-)
There's a lot of things you guys are asking for MAXON to do that you can probably do yourselves.



-ScottA
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Last edited by Scott Ayers : 05 May 2018 at 03:28 PM.
 
  05 May 2018
WTF?
I edited my post and it created a brand new one.
And I can't find damned "delete" option!

Please delete this post.
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Last edited by Scott Ayers : 05 May 2018 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Please Delete This post
 
  05 May 2018
Yeah i also had a lot of issues with youtube videos, btw you have an icon in post menu to put the video ID.

Edit: yeah having seen your video it is mostly the way it works but you can give the measurement : radius etc.
 
  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by Scott Ayers: This is for you Bullit.
This is my first attempt at writing a tool plug like this. I don't normally work with these kinds of tools. But I wanted to see if I could replicate your Sketchup videos.
I'm pretty sure I could add snapping options if I really wanted to. But I don't want to. ;-)
There's a lot of things you guys are asking for MAXON to do that you can probably do yourselves.



-ScottA

Wait, is this a plugin? Which one?
 
  05 May 2018
^Yes. It's a tool plugin.
It's called "ScottIsAFreakingGenius"
You can find it for sale at: www.iamawesome.com


All joking aside.
It's just a little thing I wrote as a quick exercise using the Python SDK.
There's a lot of things we can make ourselves.

-ScottA
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  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by Scott Ayers: ^Yes. It's a tool plugin.
It's called "ScottIsAFreakingGenius"
You can find it for sale at: www.iamawesome.com


All joking aside.
It's just a little thing I wrote as a quick exercise using the Python SDK.
There's a lot of things we can make ourselves.

-ScottA
Well, if you are a good Python coder AND you are good with Cinema 4D's Python SDK.

Frankly, I am able to code small Python games and use Python in Maya but I think the Python implementation in Cinema 4D is a mess, super confusing, more for smart coders like you than simple artists that know a little bit of coding like me..

But you did a great little experiment there. The hole Sketch-up style was amazing. A lot of people (me included) could use this, maybe you should release to others.

Best,
 
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