Experience w/C4D Hair System

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  4 Weeks Ago
My suspicion that insufficient quantity of guides creates intersection problems has been validated. With my Davinci character I'd only had about 8 guides for the head hair. By tripling that I've got both better flow and reduced issues w/intersections into the body.

There are still some intersections but it reduced it about 80%.

I'll post some images when I'm further along.
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
I suspect if Maxon could jump from single threaded CPU sims on hair to GPU acceleration...the simming could be quite literally 100x faster. Single-hair dynamics would be plausible with almost any scene. Sure hope that arrives in the next year or two.
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Last edited by IceCaveMan : 4 Weeks Ago at 02:59 AM.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
ohh I should have posted here instead of a new topic, does anyone know if frizz / kink works with redshift?
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  4 Weeks Ago
I can't speak highly enough of Eric Reed's tutorials on Cineversity:
https://www.cineversity.com/vidplay...and_hair_guides

He has worked *a lot* with hair for top clients...and is a consummate professional. It does take a commitment of time and focus to work through the material.
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
I previously mis-characterized something about the hair module.

In the Editor Tab you can choose to preview hair while your work. It will show up in the viewport, including the dynamics. If you set it to to view a reasonable percentage of the hair--or if your object doesn't have many hairs... this works quite well.

In the viewport the hair will appear without dimensionality or color. Just black. And there will be culling so some of the hair might disappear depending on view angle.

I like the hair module even better after starting to use this feature. Of course you'll want to turn it on or off depending on what you aspect you are editing.
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Last edited by IceCaveMan : 4 Weeks Ago at 07:50 AM.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
I'm starting to believe I can style really nice hair and do with it whatever I wish.

Two sensations have come over me this evening:
-Sheer disbelief that there are humans capable of creating such a system. This is just amazing. Everything just works and the creators didn't seem to miss any possibility.

-The second sensation is harder to describe. It's as if in a dream you buy a property with a house and the seller says, "Oh yeah...and there's a little shed on the property. Long after purchasing the home you go back to finally inspect the shed. It's got a nice heater inside...and its lovely...And it's full of tools! Not just old rusted ones but a carpenter's dream set of tools. Workbenches. Power Drills. Table Saws. All the best and everything is all laid out perfect. You think to yourself: "This was included in the purchase!? This is mine?!"

I've been using c4d for 10 years and I always knew there was a hair system. But I had no idea just how compelling...and swimmingly useful it is. I didn't think serious grooming was for someone like me. But it is!

It's taken me 10 years and now, finally with proper knowledge of the features and a little practice...these tools are mine.
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Last edited by IceCaveMan : 4 Weeks Ago at 08:00 PM.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Without cheats it is inherently difficult to get lustrous looking hair in 3d. Justconsider the physics of it... and the similarity of hair to a diffuse material. Despite the reflectivity of an individual hair, each hair has a slightly different position and rotation than every other hair. When light hits all that dissimilarity it just isn't going to bounce light in the kind of uniform direction required for sparkly gleam. The light scatters in all manner of direction and the math is this: scattered light = diffuse= flat.

Even if you crank up the reflective qualities of your 3d material to the max...it can look flat. It simply doesn't matter how hot a specular is...if the hairs are throwing off their reflections in diverse directions. With a renderer like Octane...which uses real-world light physics....the challenge is even tougher. You are going to get flat looking hair w/out very clever maneuvering...or miracles.

Consider hair ads and their models...how do they get shiny looking hair? They comb, straighten, stretch, align, clamp, spray, and even tape the hairs...to achieve a "wall of hair" with maximum 'sameness' from one hair to the next. They also find models with very, very dense rugs and use searing bright lights. Even after that they of course photoshop the hell out of it.

The question becomes: how can I best compensate? How can I cheat? That's what I'm off to explore.

Hair product ad
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Last edited by IceCaveMan : 4 Weeks Ago at 07:14 AM.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Following up on the previous post...there are 3 options for shiny lustrous hair:

1. Use the low-poly hair method described earlier in this thread

2. Use regular hair but with the following rules:
-Use no (or very little) curls, waves, frizz, etc. No dynamics! Brush the hair to get uniform sheets of hair. Use generous hair counts and light it well. Obviously this is usually not an attractive option.

3. Employ a cheat. The native c4d hair approach w/standard render cheats by using a "specular" color which is in fact just a color gradient overlay. That's one example of a cheat.

Hopefully...some good cheating tips for Octane will follow if I can uncover them.
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Last edited by IceCaveMan : 4 Weeks Ago at 09:22 AM.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
This is great info good sir!!.
My primary interest is animation with locomotion.
For longer styles on Females I am trying to achieve
What I would refer to as "Female News Anchor Hair"
where basicly everything from the crown to the jawline is fairly rigid
and you only get lovely"dynamics" with the bits laying about her shoulders an upper chest.
Here is an old test from last year , that shows how I do not want the entire
head of hair moving in unison.






Clearly we have not a way to gradually attenuate hair dynamics influence
via a vertex/weightmap .
As we can easily achieve with the jiggle deformer on fat bellies for example.


Apologies for this one Mates



I could make the crown area non dynamic and the lower hanging bits a separate hair object but that would ruin the Illusion if the lower bits moved too much from their upper half


How would you approach this challenge??

Last edited by ThreeDDude : 4 Weeks Ago at 07:23 PM.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Interesting explorations,ThreeDDude
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Still exploring. I'll nibble on this over the next few days. Render while I'm coding.

Here is my plan of attack:
1. See if I first can employ the rules of hair advertisers (wall of hair) and get a look that shimmers and shines in ideal circumstances.
2. Explore and optimize material attributes
3. Explore cheats for more real world circumstances (dynamics, curl, kink, frizz)

I think i'll be a better cheat if I can first do it the 'pure way'.

The one thing I'm discovering right off: short of using the low-poly hair strips...if you want max gloss, glisten and realism you need a LOT of hairs....just like the ladies in the hair commercials. This of course incurs a render penalty. At least with Octane where geo conversion times jump up.
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: Still exploring. I'll nibble on this over the next few days. Render while I'm coding.

Here is my plan of attack:
1. See if I first can employ the rules of hair advertisers (wall of hair) and get a look that shimmers and shines in ideal circumstances.
2. Explore and optimize material attributes
3. Explore cheats for more real world circumstances (dynamics, curl, kink, frizz)

I think i'll be a better cheat if I can first do it the 'pure way'.

The one thing I'm discovering right off: short of using the low-poly hair strips...if you want max gloss, glisten and realism you need a LOT of hairs....just like the ladies in the hair commercials. This of course incurs a render penalty. At least with Octane where geo conversion times jump up.
The default hair material has way to much spec I found, and the highlte needs tightening with a secondary tint of colour for spec. The overhall spec will wash out the colour as it is. Use the clone hairs to help with intersections, this gives back some better hair without too much intersections which is what causes poor spec highlites. Frizz at the root also helps. Draped hair a single strip of hair guides gives best results, while combed back you can have more guides.









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  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Rectro: The default hair material has way to much spec I found, and the highlte needs tightening with a secondary tint of colour for spec. The overhall spec will wash out the colour as it is. Use the clone hairs to help with intersections, this gives back some better hair without too much intersections which is what causes poor spec highlites. Frizz at the root also helps. Draped hair a single strip of hair guides gives best results, while combed back you can have more guides.









Nice work, Rectro! Cheats are awesome. I wish it were as easy to cheat it in Octane. Interesting observation about clones.
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Thought I'd pop in with a quick test from Arnold. Its hair shader is physically based, and designed to make human hair (i.e. a simple melanin control to produce everything from blonde to black hair). It makes it a little more challenging to make non-human hair, but it can be done...
 
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