New Mac Pro in 2019

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  04 April 2018
NWoolridge everything is fine. I think we understand each other quite well.

I didn't want to turn this thread around so go on with the topic
 
  04 April 2018
Well, this thread is still quite lively isn't it.

While I knew that things can get heated whenever you get within a mile of a Mac/ PC topic, I'm glad to see there are some other people that seem to be in the same boat.  I half expected the only responses to to be "just switch to PC you idiot" and honestly I'm not really offended by those since that is sometimes a voice in my own head.

Regarding the "just build an updated cheesegrater"  line of thinking:  I get that, and I'd probably buy it f they built it. But it reminds me of the Henry Ford quote where he said that if he had asked people what they wanted, they would have said "a faster horse." We all want a faster horse, but what if there is some novel approach to our workflows and tools that could yield meaningful advances?  I started in this business before there was a usable internet and before anyone carried a cell phone,  but the 3d animation workstations from back then were strikingly similar to what we use now,  just with less capable components.  I'm glad someone at least seems to be taking a fresh look at this paradigm and seeing what might be done to move things forward, aside from simply stuffing the same components that everyone else uses into a big metal box.  
 
  04 April 2018
Originally Posted by frizz2112:  I'm glad someone at least seems to be taking a fresh look at this paradigm and seeing what might be done to move things forward, aside from simply stuffing the same components that everyone else uses into a big metal box.  

That's the whole advantage of a tower workstation, right?  Swap a failed component or add another as the project demands it.

Apple had this dialed in years back. A lovely tower with tool-less entry, good ventilation, easy hard drive swaps.  GPU choices  were a bit of a problem, but With nVidia releasing Mac drivers now this should be a no brainer.

My Mac Pro tower sitting below my desk is still a wonderfully designed machine.  The trend in self build gaming PCs to glass and lightning strips still irks me.  
 
  04 April 2018
Originally Posted by BubblegumDimension: That's the whole advantage of a tower workstation, right?  Swap a failed component or add another as the project demands it.

Apple had this dialed in years back. A lovely tower with tool-less entry, good ventilation, easy hard drive swaps.  GPU choices  were a bit of a problem, but With nVidia releasing Mac drivers now this should be a no brainer.

My Mac Pro tower sitting below my desk is still a wonderfully designed machine.  The trend in self build gaming PCs to glass and lightning strips still irks me.  

See also: don't fix it if it isn't broken. Really the only mistakes they made on those were that the things were a little too heavy (I don't think they had to be that hardcore with the case in order for it to be resilient), the handle edges were too sharp, and they made the CPUs harder to upgrade than they should've been on the older models. The slide-out CPU tray models were pretty sweet.

But yeah. Good design in this space = open up the components to be swapped easily and get out of the way, we've got stuff to do. lol
 
  04 April 2018
Having played with an iMac Pro in the local Apple store, I have faith that the new machines will be decent. All I want is the ability to use Nvidia CUDA optimised for the Mac, not some hacked around shortcut. That will make me happy. I have an old cheese grater that is currently my Music making mac and it is fantastic. Unfortunately too old to update to the new Logic which is annoying, but still a perfectly good machine. The swappable hard drives are a wonderful design, so easy to switch. Bring those back please
 
  04 April 2018
I just finished watching the new Louis Rossmann video where he tears down the worst Apple products. The one Apple product he didn't have any criticism for?

The cheesegrater. Bring back the cheesegrater.

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  04 April 2018
Everyone agrees that the aforementioned strengths of the cheesegrater Mac Pro are desirable in any future Mac Pro.  Where I think I part ways with some is the assumption that any innovation on Apple's part risks compromising on this list of "must haves" in a pro workstation, and therefore they should just not bother trying.  Ironically, many of the things people listed as their favorite features of the cheesgrater Mac Pro would not have existed if Apple had just left well enough alone as some are suggesting. It is certainly possible that they drop the ball again and compromise where they should not, but I'd like to think there are ways these machines can be improved that nobody has considered yet. 
 
  04 April 2018
Originally Posted by frizz2112: Everyone agrees that the aforementioned strengths of the cheesegrater Mac Pro are desirable in any future Mac Pro.  Where I think I part ways with some is the assumption that any innovation on Apple's part risks compromising on this list of "must haves" in a pro workstation, and therefore they should just not bother trying.  Ironically, many of the things people listed as their favorite features of the cheesgrater Mac Pro would not have existed if Apple had just left well enough alone as some are suggesting. It is certainly possible that they drop the ball again and compromise where they should not, but I'd like to think there are ways these machines can be improved that nobody has considered yet. 

I think your points are true.  Apple made strides in the tower space that few put that much effort into.  Few manufacturers meet the cheese grater standard today.

I also think Apple's behavior following the tower earned the skepticism they are receiving from people on this forum.  The innovations Apple made in the tower space were what, 10 years ago?  They've got to build that trust back up after all the pro blunders in everything from software cancelations (shake), to lackluster standard support (Open GL, Open CL), to poor hardware/thermal design (trashcan). 

The message after Apple's hastily arranged press meet up with Daring Fireball, Techcrunch, and BuzzFeed was that they thought the future was single powerful GPUs. That's the thought echoed by Apple's unofficial mouthpiece, John Gruber:

Quote: Apple bet on a dual-GPU design (multiple smaller GPUs, with “pro”-level performance coming from parallel processing) but the industry has gone largely in the other direction (machines with one big GPU).
That, to me, sounds like Apple doesn't understand the pro market or the rise of GPU power. Or if Apple does get it, then they did a poor job communicating it to the people they invited to the hastily assembled pro event.

Last edited by BubblegumDimension : 04 April 2018 at 10:30 PM.
 
  05 May 2018
I agree that the trash can Mac Pro was a failure. The result of painting themselves in a corner with a too restrictive thermal enclosure. They’ve done the same thing with the MacBook Pro and the iMac Pro.
I use an iMac Pro at work, and it’s a decent machine, but it could be much faster if it were a bit thicker and thus allowed higher clock rates.

Apple has abandoned the Pro market for years, and we continue to wait for the eventual machine to right their wrongs.

 Sure, Apple needs to go back to the drawing board to create something truly revolutionary for the Pro community. And it sounds like they are finally doing that. Paying attention to how real Pros work, and how to best address their needs is a great start. I just hope they realize that while we value machine design, it should never come at the price of performance.

IIRC, their announcement of red-addressing the Mac Pro was at last year’s WWDC. ANd now almost a year later we’re still waiting, and seem to have quite a long wait yet.

At that announcement, they should have also brought back the cheese grater Mac Pro with updated specs. This would give Pro users much needed upgrades now, and Apple some Pro based revenue until this new Uber Mac Pro is released.

They should also revert the MacBook Pro to be about 1” thick, include a 17” screen and a dedicated video card and user swappable RAM. There’s not enough gap between laptop models currently. The MacBook Pro, in my opinion, should be a portable desktop computer, not a lightweight laptop best used to taking notes in class.

Just my .02

Terry
 
  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by TBoxman:
They should also revert the MacBook Pro to be about 1” thick, include a 17” screen and a dedicated video card and user swappable RAM. There’s not enough gap between laptop models currently. The MacBook Pro, in my opinion, should be a portable desktop computer, not a lightweight laptop best used to taking notes in class.

Just my .02

Terry
  

I still have my 17'" laptop and it absolutely shows its age, but matte screen and size is greatly missed in the newer models. One of the reasons I never updated it. 
 
  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by rsquires:   

I still have my 17'" laptop and it absolutely shows its age, but matte screen and size is greatly missed in the newer models. One of the reasons I never updated it. 
Getting rid of the MacBook Pro 17 was my first major disappointment with Apple towards the pro market. Little did I know at the time, there would be so many more to follow.

My trashcan is showing its age, so hope the new model will be a viable replacement. Not too optimistic about it though. I have a feeling its going to come at a price point that is going to be hard to justify compared to a Windows PC.
 
  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by Jim-H: My trashcan is showing its age, so hope the new model will be a viable replacement. Not too optimistic about it though. I have a feeling its going to come at a price point that is going to be hard to justify compared to a Windows PC.
Price point is key of course, and given that there are $13K iMac Pros out there, it's not unreasonable to fear that this machine is going to be hopelessly expensive.  The cheesegrater had the price balance right.  You paid what I felt was a reasonable premium versus a comparable PC, and could point to some actual benefits beyond just the "Apple tax".  They have to know that another trashcan type of approach, ie, style over substance, not listening to actual pros, etc, is going to be a disaster.  The question is whether or not they can find a way to add real value and justify a reasonable premium compared to what's already out there. 
 
  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by frizz2112: The cheesegrater had the price balance right.
Things changed a lot since cheesgrater days, back then the priciest CPU for the used sockets where quite cheap compared to what we have now. Today the priciest CPU for socket FCLGA3647 are 13.000$ each and even going with dual Xeon Gold(or 2019 equivalent) it will be easily 7.000$ only for the CPU alone(and before Apple markup). While you can build very good system using I9 or Threadripper for reasonable price, if you buy a dual Xeon Gold system from a premium reseller(like HP for example) it can be easily over 15.000$ and go up until 40.000$ for a loaded system. Apple price won't be that different for a similarly specced machine so if you don't want to spend that kind of money then build an i9/TR Windows system today or start saving right now for the 2019 MP
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  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by rsquires:   

I still have my 17'" laptop and it absolutely shows its age, but matte screen and size is greatly missed in the newer models. One of the reasons I never updated it. 
You get used the glossy screen but it's definitely not optimal. And whatever Apple's definition of "oleophobic screen" is, it differs from mine. Those screens, like iPad screens pull the oil right off your fingers and it stays there obscuring your view until you wipe the screen clean.
 
  05 May 2018
Originally Posted by Jim-H: Getting rid of the MacBook Pro 17 was my first major disappointment with Apple towards the pro market. Little did I know at the time, there would be so many more to follow.

My trashcan is showing its age, so hope the new model will be a viable replacement. Not too optimistic about it though. I have a feeling its going to come at a price point that is going to be hard to justify compared to a Windows PC.

My thoughts exactly. 
 
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