GPU prices...Yikes!

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  01 January 2018
This happened because current GPUs are general purpose devices, not specialized processors.

You could create a GPU that only does GPGPU compute, for coin mining and so forth, without a lot of the realtime 3D hardware stuff that's also in a GPU.

In this case, bitcoin miners would buy the specialized GPGPU cards, not the all-purpose 3D cards. The price of the 3D cards would stay more or less the same.

Of couse Nvidia and AMD have a financial interest in selling the more expensive all-purpose 3D capable GPUs, so this likely won't happen.

In any case, cryptocurrencies can come crashing down at any time. And GPU prices will likely come crashing down with that, too.
 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by buddy4d: Ask Nvidia and AMD why they increased the price
Well they haven't. Re-sellers are increasing prices not manufacturers. The MSRP hasn't changed.
This whole situation results of the lack of AMD cards witch are preferred for mining << BUT >> AMD can't afford to flood the market with cards, in case of a downturn in mining they'd rot in warehouses unsold. Nvidia profits greatly from the situation, miners unable to find AMD cards buy all that Nvidia can produce, while not 1rst choice, Nvidia cards are still profitable, << BUT >>in case of a downturn the starved Gaming market will soak up Nvidia over production and shun AMD's.
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  01 January 2018
Regarding the topic of this thread, miners buying all the graphics cards, is a popular myth.

have a lookhere.. at what equipment is best for each currency. As you can quickly see, it makes little sense at all ,to use a GPu, to mine crypto.
I don't think crypto mining is the reason for shortages. Its simply NV not rampingup, to supply demand. If they can keep supply shorter than demand, it's is the perfect scenario for NV to increase it's margins.

Paul
 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by tapaul: Regarding the topic of this thread, miners buying all the graphics cards, is a popular myth.

have a lookhere.. at what equipment is best for each currency. As you can quickly see, it makes little sense at all ,to use a GPu, to mine crypto.
I don't think crypto mining is the reason for shortages. Its simply NV not rampingup, to supply demand. If they can keep supply shorter than demand, it's is the perfect scenario for NV to increase it's margins.

Paul

I'm not a miner but that website might be outdated. According to various sources (Guru3d, Techspot, I think Arstechnica too...) the shortages are mostly linked to miners gobbling up all the cards.

Ethereum is one of the most popular currencies to mine with a GPU and its value alone went from like ~400$ to ~1000$ in the last month.

I'm personally convinced its mostly miners, some of it is also probably the "DDR" market which is super pricey as well and obviously we've got gamers buying these too :P
 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by tapaul: Regarding the topic of this thread, miners buying all the graphics cards, is a popular myth.

have a lookhere.. at what equipment is best for each currency. As you can quickly see, it makes little sense at all ,to use a GPu, to mine crypto.
I don't think crypto mining is the reason for shortages. Its simply NV not rampingup, to supply demand. If they can keep supply shorter than demand, it's is the perfect scenario for NV to increase it's margins.

Paul

http://www.pcgamer.com/hang-onto-yo...es-gpus-prices/

You can scroll to this chart

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/X...B28Z-650-80.png


I have no idea how accurate the chart or article is however.


 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by tapaul: Regarding the topic of this thread, miners buying all the graphics cards, is a popular myth.
Paul
Well, If Everett says so, I guess that's the end of the discussion.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-card-shortage/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/compu...cs-card-prices/
https://www.pcworld.com/article/324...pto-mining.html
http://www.techradar.com/news/best-mining-gpu
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/...e-diy-pc-market
https://wccftech.com/high-end-graph...ga-64-for-2099/
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Last edited by laurent : 01 January 2018 at 04:24 PM.
 
  01 January 2018
Think of the Renderfarm potential in the future. You'll get your finished frames back before you can even hit submit.
 
  01 January 2018
You mean like using all those cards to actually do something useful instead of crunching numbers for the sake of it ?

Jokes apart, that's the idea behind Otoy's "Token" system, and probably one of the few good uses of blockchains.
 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by tapaul: Regarding the topic of this thread, miners buying all the graphics cards, is a popular myth.

Paul
Whether or not you think it's a good investment or not...mining is the rage. And it's driving some people to buy mass quantities of cards.
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  01 January 2018
Think about the positives as well. If the major cryptocurrencies crash badly in the next months, there will be hundreds of thousands of 2nd hand GPUs on sale for probably peanuts on Ebay and similar sites.

That would force Nvidia and AMD to immediately slash prices on 1st hand GPUs - because if they don't, everybody will be trying to scoop up the cheap 2nd hand cards instead.

Yes they can slash prices pretty hard in my humble opinion. I doubt that a 1080 GTX or similar card actually costs all that much to manufacture.
 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by tapaul: Regarding the topic of this thread, miners buying all the graphics cards, is a popular myth.

have a lookhere..

According to your own link, the top 3 most profitable devices are 2 gpus and an asic, The gpus can be had for a few hundred dollars, whilst the asic miner has a minimum order of 5 units ($8,000), still needs power supplies and racks, plus would need 7,000 watts of power to run. Plus you need to keep in mind resale value once the hardware is no longer profitable. A GPU can be resold for a significant portion of its purchase price. A custom made asic for one specific purpose is near worthless.

The single most popular system for crypto mining right now is the geforce 1060 due to the relatively lower power usage and wattage, that plus the fact you can sell them on at a later date.

Personally, whilst gpu is this popular, this would completely prevent me from buying second hand gfx card on ebay, an abused 24hour miner is going to have a much shorter life span than a gfx card used in a normal way as a video output.
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  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by skeebertus: That would force Nvidia and AMD to immediately slash prices on 1st hand GPUs - because if they don't, everybody will be trying to scoop up the cheap 2nd hand cards instead
Nvidia is less likely be affected by a flood of used videocards, the Volta lineup is ready to roll, Miners and gamers will jump on it. On the other hand AMD Graphics division would suffer greatly, they have nothing in the near future susceptible to spike interest and would be facing alone a cut throat second hand market filled with their current gen products.
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Last edited by laurent : 01 January 2018 at 10:13 AM.
 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by imashination: ...an abused 24hour miner is going to have a much shorter life span than a gfx card used in a normal way as a video output.

I don't know...Aside from fan failure, GPUs are pretty rugged, IMO. Fan failure can be mitigated.
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  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: I don't know...Aside from fan failure, GPUs are pretty rugged, IMO. Fan failure can be mitigated.

I gotta say I disagree a bit. I think they are rugged yeah but from all the components in your computer I think the GPU is in the middle / top of the list of components that might not last that long. That is especially so if you are using overclocked versions in the 80-90+ degree range.

From my experience its usually the boards that "die" first. You can do some resurrecting if you bake them in the oven (literally) but its not a long term solution. I don't recall reading much about the actual GPU (the processor, not the card) failure but VRAM and the board seem to be on the hit more often.

That said I think it depends on what you mean with longetivity Generally its pretty common for a CPU to last you 10+ years but obviously there are the "lucky" few who draw the short end. Graphic cards on the other hand... I rarely hear of that kind of longetivity because there are multiple components at play and its pretty common for most components to heat up to like 90 degrees.

Bottom line, for what they are I think GPUs are rugged. If you'd ask me about whether a GPU on average outlasts a CPU in terms of life span? I'd say no Ultimately I recommend getting water cooling for GPU rigs or any of the Hybrid combos. Personally I tend to think that if you can keep it below something like 75-80 degrees when rendering then you can expect at least 4+ years out of it. I came up with those numbers from my ass (experience) so don't ask me for sources lol
 
  01 January 2018
Originally Posted by nejck: I gotta say I disagree a bit. I think they are rugged yeah but from all the components in your computer I think the GPU is in the middle / top of the list of components that might not last that long. That is especially so if you are using overclocked versions in the 80-90+ degree range.


The most likely damage would occur in a situation where there is constant thermal expansion and contraction of the hardware. Physical matter grows slightly when heated, and shrinks slightly when it cools down again.

If you had a crazy application that heats a GPU to 90 degrees, then lets it cool to 20, then takes it up to 90 degrees again, and back down to 20 degrees and on and on, hundreds of times a day, the hardware may over time become unreliable and experience failure.

I don't know whether a GPU engineered to run at 80 degrees constant for a 12 hour gaming session without damage happening would actually get damaged if you kept it at 80 degrees 24/7. Electronics components are supposed to be over-engineered slightly to cope with this sort of load.

AFAIK, electronics running at a constant temperature that is within design limits do not become damaged by that temperature as long as they are engineered properly for that temperature.

But the number of times a GPU can go to Max heat, cool down to Min heat, and go back up to Max heat may indeed be limited. Do that cycle 100,000 times or 200,000 times, and maybe your GPU will indeed crap out.

The fan is another matter. Depending on whether its a cheap 3 Dollar part or a more sturdy 8 Dollar or 12 Dollar part, and whether the fan is cleaned at all and so on, the fan may indeed die through prolonged use.
 
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